Is Hb Good For The Environment?

[mash head]

wtf

Whats that skip you havnt read the whole post and Sonnys down the creek with his home made still. Its ok Gary will be here in the chopper soon :lol:

 

[manticle]

wtf

Are you surprised my girlfriend likes to drink my homebrew, that she likes to drink my stout or is my post just unclear?

In summary: Sometimes I make stout. My girlfriend likes it. Therefore she won't ban me making it just because it makes me fart.

I hope all is clear.

 

[remi]

one other good water use suggestion (for those of us that don't already have grey-water/ rainwater systems) is to use rinsing/ cleaning/ cooling water for the washing machine or similar- i fill old fermenters with cooling/ cleaning water during the brew day, and they get gradually tipped into the washing machine over the coming weeks...no garden wastage here (no garden)

remi

 

[notung]

There were some comments about ants and worms on the first page of this thread. Until last year I was maintaining some worm farms for composting reasons and as food for the axolotls. I once made the mistake of grabbing a handful of boiled hops from the hopsock and feeding them to a container of worms. They all died! I think this could be one of the dangers in feeding kettle trub to your compost worms.

 

[notung]

"Fermenting Revolution: How to Drink Beer and Save the World
By Christopher Mark O'Brien

Fermenting Revolution delivers an empowering message about how individuals can change the world through the simple act of having a beer. It is also the first book to view all of the important trends in human history as fundamentally revolving around beer.

Globalization pitches the corporate worldview that is essentially selfish, rewarding the few while demeaning the many and devastating nature, against the sustainability movement that calls for cooperation, the protection and celebration of nature and the nurturing of equitable communities. Beer exemplifies the struggle. This book:
Traces the path of brewing from a women-led, home-based craft to corporate industry;
Describes how craft breweries and home-brewing are forging stronger communities;
Explains how corporate mega-breweries are saving the world by pioneering industrial ecology; and
Profiles the most inspiring and radical breweries, brewers and beer drinkers that are making the world a better place to live.


The return to beer as a way of life is communal, convivial, democratic, healthful, and natural. The American beer renaissance champions ecologically sustainable production, and is helping to create thriving community places. After reading Fermenting Revolution, mere beer drinkers will become "beer activists," ready to fight corporate-rule by simply meeting their neighbors for a pint at the local brewpub -- saving the world one beer at a time.
About the Contributor(s)
Christopher O'Brien is Director of the Responsible Purchasing Network at The Center for a New American Dream. Part owner of an organic and fair trade brewing supplies company, he is publisher of the online brewsletter, Beeractivist.com."

 

[Renegade]

Whats that skip you havnt read the whole post and Sonnys down the creek with his home made still. Its ok Gary will be here in the chopper soon :lol:

Allegedly he bitters with Eucalyptus leaves too. Weeeeooo- e- Oooh - Oooh. Who knows what sort of neurological damage those native oils cause.

snip/ my girlfriend likes to drink my homebrew,
snip/ she likes to drink my stout
snip/ is my post just
snip/ Sometimes I make stout.
snip/ My girlfriend likes it.
snip/ it makes me fart.

I love reading stuff out of context, dirty old man that I am :unsure:

There were some comments about ants and worms on the first page of this thread. Until last year I was maintaining some worm farms for composting reasons and as food for the axolotls. I once made the mistake of grabbing a handful of boiled hops from the hopsock and feeding them to a container of worms. They all died! I think this could be one of the dangers in feeding kettle trub to your compost worms.

And you are a genocidal maniac in the worm community. Fortunately, very few of the survivors have ever logged into an internet forum. (I dare those worms who have - to speak up NOW.)

I don't think they have the backbone for it.

Perhaps I should visit the "Dry July" thread now and let the gang know that I've fallen off the wagon.

 

[chucke]

Is Hb Good For The Environment?

If HB produced dangerous byproducts, like mercury or PCBs, I might give it a thought. As it is

 

[mje1980]

How much electricity does a brewery consume in a 24hr period?? Probably more than you do at home all year ( including non brewing )

How much paperwork does a brewery consume?? A shitload more than you ever will

How many workers in a brewery who drive to work everyday?? Lots of greenhouse gas there

How many delivery trucks driving beer all over the country?? Shitloads, and we know how enviro friendly the big rigs are!!!!

That's just a start. I seriously doubt HB'ing leaves a bigger eco footprint than a mega brewery.

 

[bum]

The brewery employees' cars is the only valid point you've raised. Every other point can be greatly reduced/negated when you consider the volume they produce compared to HBers and the greater efficiency they maintain in regard to water, etc.

 

[Polar Beer]

How much electricity does a brewery consume in a 24hr period?? Probably more than you do at home all year ( including non brewing )

How much paperwork does a brewery consume?? A shitload more than you ever will

How many workers in a brewery who drive to work everyday?? Lots of greenhouse gas there

How many delivery trucks driving beer all over the country?? Shitloads, and we know how enviro friendly the big rigs are!!!!

That's just a start. I seriously doubt HB'ing leaves a bigger eco footprint than a mega brewery.

Almost everyone works. The industry you work in may be even more polluting then mega brewing. You can't compare a home hobby to a fully fledged major employer. The mega brew industry can leverage it's massive scale to deliver the best environmental outcomes but still needs to keep it's shareholders and employees happy. That's something we don't need to worry about at all.
Looking at this question as a process (hb) vs process (mega) to achieve beer in your glass, doesn't IMO result in a meaningful answer. The impact of the HB process should certainly be looked at, but it can only really be compared to what YOU might otherwise be able to achieve with that time, water, money etc. In which case, depending on how efficient you are with your water etc, it's probably not great, but could be much worse.

 

[drtomc]

Think about the huge reduction in your carbon emissions though. Less travelling in a car to buy beer, which is delivered and distributed in fossil fuel burning trucks.

Even a trip to the LHBS would get you enough ingredients to brew a lot more beer than you could fit in your car in just one trip to the local bottle-o.

You make me feel better and better for riding my bike to the HBS. Not so good for buying bulk grain, etc, but I still by mine a brew at a time. The 60L pot on the back of my bike was entertaining.

T. (looking outside at the rain, thinking about my planned lunchtime trip to get the grain for brewing tonight)

 

[bum]

Looking at this question as a process (hb) vs process (mega) to achieve beer in your glass, doesn't IMO result in a meaningful answer. The impact of the HB process should certainly be looked at, but it can only really be compared to what YOU might otherwise be able to achieve with that time, water, money etc.

And looking at the megas can't teach us anything in that regard?

 

[tcraig20]

the corporate worldview that is essentially selfish, rewarding the few while demeaning the many and devastating nature,

Explains how corporate mega-breweries are saving the world by pioneering industrial ecology;

:unsure:

 

[OzMick]

How much electricity does a brewery consume in a 24hr period?? Probably more than you do at home all year ( including non brewing )

How much paperwork does a brewery consume?? A shitload more than you ever will

How many workers in a brewery who drive to work everyday?? Lots of greenhouse gas there

How many delivery trucks driving beer all over the country?? Shitloads, and we know how enviro friendly the big rigs are!!!!

That's just a start. I seriously doubt HB'ing leaves a bigger eco footprint than a mega brewery.

I'll just throw in my two cents here, seeing as I work at a brewery. All of these points quoted ignore economy of scale! If a major brewery does 40 odd brews a week, each one perhaps 4000 times the size of a standard homebrew batch, we are talking 160000x as much of everything per week, assuming 1 brew per week from a homebrewer. A couple hundred employees still means very little in labour and transport costs per litre when compared to the cost of driving to your LHBS for ingredients. And big rigs are a much more fuel efficient way of transporting product than homebrewing, might take 1L of diesel to move a single carton from one side of the country to the other, compared with the maybe 10L of petrol I need to burn to get to my new HBS of choice. Paperwork is surprisingly little these days, almost all electronic, and again, multiply whatever you do each week by 160000 and I'd wager you'd find the brewery comes out well in front. Lets say your 1 batch requires you to use a computer for 10 minutes per brew. For a brewery turning over a brew every couple hours, running a few servers and a dozen terminals to monitor it is still much more efficient than the amount of computer time you've spent on your single brew, in terms of time/litre.

Water, gas and electricity all cost the brewery, and a lot of money is invested in heat recovery, CO2 recovery and water recovery. I'm quite certain CO2 recovery from fermentation *isn't* done by homebrewers, and while some people use a heat exchanger to cool wort, the heat is generally dumped rather than recovered back into the next HLT. Spent grain is also sold for animal feed, and yeast sold to Kraft to turn into Vegemite. Very little is wasted, and it all costs money.

Packaging materials are another story. Homebrew stomps all over retail product (although a brewery's kegs would be better in terms of what goes into cleaning them). No argument that homebrew is better for bottled product.

All said and done, probably break even if you're recovering water onto your lawn/garden and mulching grain waste etc.

 

[mje1980]

Can you tell me how much power the mega brewery you work in uses each week, roughly??. I guarantee no one here uses that much in a year. I know that a Mega brewery is more efficient on a large scale, but they STILL use more energy in a week than we do in a year. Just because they do it more efficiently is irrelevant. The total amount is waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than any of us. The environment doesn't say " Oh well, all the power you use, and the size of your carbon footprint is ok, because you've done it efficiently" does it??


The efficiency of the system doesn't matter, its the TOTAL volume/footprint/enery consumption that is important. Yes, i understand that if our home brewing setups were magnified to produce the same amount as a brewery, we'd be screwed, but my point is, we DONT brew the same volume as a brewery.

 

[OzMick]

Can you tell me how much power the mega brewery you work in uses each week, roughly??. I guarantee no one here uses that much in a year. I know that a Mega brewery is more efficient on a large scale, but they STILL use more energy in a week than we do in a year. Just because they do it more efficiently is irrelevant. The total amount is waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than any of us. The environment doesn't say " Oh well, all the power you use, and the size of your carbon footprint is ok, because you've done it efficiently" does it??


The efficiency of the system doesn't matter, its the TOTAL volume/footprint/enery consumption that is important. Yes, i understand that if our home brewing setups were magnified to produce the same amount as a brewery, we'd be screwed, but my point is, we DONT brew the same volume as a brewery.

I can't provide $$$ info off hand and would be reluctant to provide specifics in any case, but I can say with confidence that you and your dozen best mates combined will never drink the weekly multi-million litre capacity of our brewery in your lifetime so comparing 1 brewery to 1 individual is pointless, and without that the big boys, the drinkers of commercial beer would otherwise have to brew their own, which you've suggested would not scale well. In that sense, centralizing production isn't as bad as the alternative if you want to assess things that way.

I'm not trying to say a big brewery is better or worse, just trying to state some facts because the big boys (one of whom pay my bills admittedly) don't deserve to be bashed over this, a lot of time and money is invested in ensuring things are as clean and efficient as possible (and a lot of the things homebrewers can get away with the big boys would be prosecuted or charged big bucks for, trade waste disposal isn't cheap, and the EPA don't mind handing out big fines). I homebrew myself and do it for the hobby and educational value, so I'd like to think I'm relatively neutral on the subject. Ultimately the total footprint isn't the issue, and things can always be done better by everyone.

 

[Angry Scotsman]

Can you tell me how much power the mega brewery you work in uses each week, roughly??. I guarantee no one here uses that much in a year. I know that a Mega brewery is more efficient on a large scale, but they STILL use more energy in a week than we do in a year. Just because they do it more efficiently is irrelevant. The total amount is waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than any of us. The environment doesn't say " Oh well, all the power you use, and the size of your carbon footprint is ok, because you've done it efficiently" does it??


The efficiency of the system doesn't matter, its the TOTAL volume/footprint/enery consumption that is important. Yes, i understand that if our home brewing setups were magnified to produce the same amount as a brewery, we'd be screwed, but my point is, we DONT brew the same volume as a brewery.

Individually we don't brew as much as a big brewery but collectively our foot print would be quite large. To me the fact they are so effiecent is irrelevant. I don't work for any brewery but this site all ways comes back to large brewery bashing.

 

[Brewer_010]

I've got one word to say to you all: "offsets"

If you're worried about your carbon footprint from brewing, get signed up to green energy or some other way of reducing the energy impact of your brewing. Personally, I think if you're minimising and/or re-using your water, the worst thing about the hb process is running an extra fridge [or two]. Signing on to getting at least 10% of your electricity from green energy would minimise your footprint.

 

[PostModern]

How much of the malt we use ends up as CO2? Never mind where your power comes from, fermentation and carbonation are direct greenhouse gas injectors. However, as it's come from plants, it's a closed loop.

 

[tcraig20]

Can you tell me how much power the mega brewery you work in uses each week, roughly??. I guarantee no one here uses that much in a year. I know that a Mega brewery is more efficient on a large scale, but they STILL use more energy in a week than we do in a year. Just because they do it more efficiently is irrelevant. The total amount is waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than any of us. The environment doesn't say " Oh well, all the power you use, and the size of your carbon footprint is ok, because you've done it efficiently" does it??


The efficiency of the system doesn't matter, its the TOTAL volume/footprint/enery consumption that is important. Yes, i understand that if our home brewing setups were magnified to produce the same amount as a brewery, we'd be screwed, but my point is, we DONT brew the same volume as a brewery.

So Im cool because I make less pollution than China?