Is Hb Good For The Environment?

[AndrewQLD]

Yes - you get double points :icon_cheers: and so do I - started just this year and without a doubt best lemons we've ever had!

:lol:

 

[lastdrinks]

:icon_cheers: nice. probably best not too raise our water saving technique when someone is munching down on our home made lemon tart or sucking on a lemon after a shot of tequlia at our house though.

 

[Steve]

I remember visiting Cascade brewery a few years ago and the guide saying that after implementing various water saving initiatives they had reduced their water usage to 10lt per lt! Being the country's oldest operating brewery though, I suppose it would have been harder for them than others.

dont they get all their water from a babbling brook gently cascading past their factory straight from the snow from the mountains? Thats gotta be worth a few browny points? Or am I mistaken?
Cheers
Steve

 

[Steve]

Also do i get points for pissing on my lemon tree?

Yes you do - works a treat doesnt it. Adds that little bit extra twang I find.

 

[Polar Beer]

I've thought about this before and I'm still not sure what I think. I don't believe it's worthwhile comparing HB to large commercial or craft breweries as they are industry and we are hobby. My feeling is you should only really compare this hobby to the alternative ways to spend your time. That may or may not be drinking down the pub.
We can't sit still all day, we need to do something. If you didn't drink, didn't HB and you spent your time doing something with less environmental impact then either, the planet would be better off. But it might also be boring.

In that context I see HB as an environmentally better time waster then playing with hotted up cars, watching imported DVDs on imported TVs, holidaying overseas, driving when you could walk etc etc.
But less environmentally friendly then vegetable gardening, walking, reading and other low impact pursuits.

If you are worried HB is a bad environmental activity, first look at the rest of your life. I'm sure there are worse things you could cut out that would have a greater net effect on the planet. Then your could BREW MORE :icon_chickcheers:

FWIW, I stick to JW grain to save food miles and I drop in a 3/4 full smaller container into my fermenters if I soak them. This floats around the fermenter and takes the space of what would be probably 8-10 litres of water.

Cheers
POLAR

 

[mash head]

I havent read all this thread. But dont fool yourselves think about the shitoads of diesel I burn not only to plant the barley but to harvest it, as well then the big trucks to take it to the bulk storage joint then all the energy it takes ( not to mention the water ) to malt the said barley. I havent even mentioned the toxic chemicals we use to spray the barley with to control weeds and insects. All this enviromental vandalism before you even crack a grain, so my suggestion is dwhahb or quit drinking ffs lol. :icon_cheers:
Cheers Greg

 

[Thirsty Boy]

The commercials send millions of kilos of spent grain to be used in cattle feed. Transport miles and cow methane farts. My spent grain ends up as compost and keeps me in eggplants, tomatoes, spinach etc.

AHB member round the corner from here has also just invested in some chooks so they will be getting some grains as well because my little garden is just about at its limit.

I buy nearly all my stuff from a sponsor and the freight is flat-fee up to 20 kilos (or maybe 25 I forget) so I order in enough for four or five brews which cuts down on the malt miles.

Oddly enough - cows that eat spent grain produce about 1/3rd of the greenhouse gas as do cows that eat grass.

For info purposes the two biggest breweries in Australia use 2.4 and 2.6L of water respectively to send 1L of packaged beer out the door.

The majority of a commercial beer's ecological footprint is in the packaging and packaging process

Do you use as little water as you think? Nobody talked about washing glasses - even if you just give the glass a quick rinse in between beers.. thats nearly 1L of water per Litre of beer consumed - before you wash it at the end of the day. Water not used if you drank from a stubby of commercial brew. And this whole "but it goes on the lawn" thing is false economy - you turned on a tap, you sucked out some water and you used it to make beer - if you hadn't done that it would still be in the reservoir. Your damn lawn can do without - that's why water restrictions limit watering the grass/garden.. its still officially wasting it. You cant say you didn't waste it on your brewing because you then wasted it on your lawn.

I spent a while a year or two ago working out the carbon footprint of my brewing - I gave up when I realized it was going to come in at about 2/3rds of owning and driving a small car. So I just bought offsets for a small car and got on with life.

My gut feel is that the smallest ecological footprint you could have while still drinking beer - would be to sit at the bar of your local pub and drink draught beer from the Mega brewery in your city. Don't live in a city with a mega brewery.... then maybe homebrew if you are reasonably conscientious about it.

 

[lastdrinks]

I havent read all this thread. But dont fool yourselves think about the shitoads of diesel I burn not only to plant the barley but to harvest it, as well then the big trucks to take it to the bulk storage joint then all the energy it takes ( not to mention the water ) to malt the said barley. I havent even mentioned the toxic chemicals we use to spray the barley with to control weeds and insects. All this enviromental vandalism before you even crack a grain, so my suggestion is dwhahb or quit drinking ffs lol. :icon_cheers:
Cheers Greg

lol absolute classic! talk about smacking down my eco BS warm and fuzzy feeling. might go out now in my V8 and shot some things with my spotlight. lol

 

[manticle]

Do you use as little water as you think? Nobody talked about washing glasses - even if you just give the glass a quick rinse in between beers.. thats nearly 1L of water per Litre of beer consumed - before you wash it at the end of the day. Water not used if you drank from a stubby of commercial brew. And this whole "but it goes on the lawn" thing is false economy - you turned on a tap, you sucked out some water and you used it to make beer - if you hadn't done that it would still be in the reservoir. Your damn lawn can do without - that's why water restrictions limit watering the grass/garden.. its still officially wasting it. You cant say you didn't waste it on your brewing because you then wasted it on your lawn.

How hard is it to keep a bucket next to the sink so rinsing water goes in that?
How hard is it it dig up the lawn and plant veges instead. That isn't wasting it, officially or not. Less veges bought = less contributions to industry water usage (again).

I reckon I leave a bigger carbon footprint doing my dishes (and I save water there by NOT doing them). I don't care about my lawn. Grass is essentially a weed.

 

[manticle]

I havent read all this thread. But dont fool yourselves think about the shitoads of diesel I burn not only to plant the barley but to harvest it, as well then the big trucks to take it to the bulk storage joint then all the energy it takes ( not to mention the water ) to malt the said barley. I havent even mentioned the toxic chemicals we use to spray the barley with to control weeds and insects. All this enviromental vandalism before you even crack a grain, so my suggestion is dwhahb or quit drinking ffs lol. :icon_cheers:
Cheers Greg

The reason that barley is grown is not for homebrewers though. I'd estimate they contribute very little to the overall amounts grown, maintained and sold and without them the industry wouldn't be massively affected. The overall impact of DIY is always going to be less than commercial or industrialised produce.

 

[Renegade]

The arguement between kegging vs bottling for HB is probably worth some consideration in this discussion. Both have already gone through the energy-burning process of production when they were created, and they will last a lifetime (let's not consider the small % of bottles that get smashed, it's going to be a small number. The advantage over kegging would be from a water consumption viewpoint. I'm a bottler, and use a shitload of water to rinse after each beer is consumed, at least 1.5/1, probably much more. Kegging wouldn't need 30 litres to clean it out each time though (or would it ?)

Bottles, however, have already been produced for the purpose of beer the first time around, and generally aren't 'custom made' (who here actually BUYS their glass bottles ? To me that's a waste when I can buy bottles with beer in them already!)

It's difficult to weigh up an overall ecological benefit when there are sevral distinct variables in the processes. How do you compare water use to energy use ? Two differing models of impact measurement on the earth. Lets look at:

Water
Without being consciously conservative, the HB'er might use 150 litres per brew, or roughly a 6/1 ratio, considering fermenter cleaning, rinsing, etc, post consumption bottle/keg rinsing, kettle/pot/equipment cleaning, pre-bottling cleaning & sanitising and so forth. The question is, what are the breweries water consumption rates - which would include the not so obvious factory cleaning, staff ablution, right down to worker's amenities. We would need to find some figures on what industry water consumption is.

A water conservative HB'er could probably do it within a 3/1 ratio if they tried to.

Energy - Production
Some good points were raised earlier today that the big brewery set ups could reuse their mass of hot water for secondary purposes. Fair call, but we might need someone who works for one (or is at least familiar with the process) to chime in with some more details.

Energy - Transport
This is an area where I think the HB'er is going to win hands down. There's far less 'middle-men' in the process, and we generally buy in bulk, whether doing AG or other. So popping down to the shop for supplies means an end result of perhaps a dozen cartons of beer at a time. Not many people drive to their bottleshop for that much beer at any one time.

Then there's the comment that I touched on in my first post. The bottles are made in a factory where the materials need to be shipped in. They are then manufactured (more energy!) and shipped out to the breweries. When they are filled, they are trucked to a series of central distribution points. They may then (maybe) be taken to a retail chain's central distribution point, which then bleed it to the stores. The end user then jumps in his car to pick up a small volume, maybe a case, for for many of us, maybe just a four pack.

As for imported beers, add to that the shipping by air or sea, and that adds heavily to the carbon footprint. All of the above, plus going to the departure port, and being taxi'd around by forklifts!

For transport efficiency alone, I reckon HB wins from an environmental standpoint. By all means there's transport networks in place that are shipping the hops and the grain around, but compare it to a truckload of commercial beer, where a huge part of the weight is simply the vessels that hold the beer (cans are obviously more efficient, but how many people buy cans?)

Anyway, homebrew rocks. I do it for the planet, right!

 

[mash head]

Now that I have read most of this thread home brewing is probably more ec than buying from the drive though but the act of brewing gives off alot emmissiions directly and in directly, so the choice is yours, quit drinking , I think not. Greg

 

[manticle]

I give off a lot of emissions, that's for sure. Good to see I'm not alone as this was mentioned earlier.

 

[Steve]

I give off a lot of emissions, that's for sure. Good to see I'm not alone as this was mentioned earlier.

im not allowed to brew or drink stout due to my emissions

 

[Renegade]

I havent read all this thread. But dont fool yourselves think about the shitoads of diesel I burn not only to plant the barley but to harvest it, as well then the big trucks to take it to the bulk storage joint then all the energy it takes ( not to mention the water ) to malt the said barley. I havent even mentioned the toxic chemicals we use to spray the barley with to control weeds and insects. All this enviromental vandalism before you even crack a grain, so my suggestion is dwhahb or quit drinking ffs lol. :icon_cheers:
Cheers Greg

Come on, that's not a valid consideration. The energy consumtioon in the production of grain is STILL there when commercial breweries make beer. So that's a zero-effect consideration. Unless we start argueing about barley crops vs sugar crops of course

For info purposes the two biggest breweries in Australia use 2.4 and 2.6L of water respectively to send 1L of packaged beer out the door.

Oh you work for a brewery, yea? That's good information to add to the discussion, we should all try to work at equalling that figure.

Nobody talked about washing glasses - even if you just give the glass a quick rinse in between beers.. thats nearly 1L of water per Litre of beer consumed

Good point too. While WE might generally drink from a glass, the commercial beer consumers out there will suck it straight from the bottle/can. Mind you, I have a lot of glasses, and replace them with a new one every three beers, and in the end they get washed in the same water that I'll use for washing the dishes. (I wash the beer glasses before the detergent goes in though!)

And this whole "but it goes on the lawn" thing is false economy

Yep ! Your lawn does not need the amount of water youre pouring onto it to survive. I agree that this arguement is not really valid. Personally some of mine goes onto my potted botanicals, which DO need a drink often. But not as much as Im wasting through the brewing process.

 

[fcmcg]

This thread is an interesting one...
i guess , it was almost one of the reasons (besides swmbo) why it took me so long to go all grain after 4 years of wort kit brewing...living in Vic...its dry...
so to help...i do this..
use the ferg 2000 immersion chiller ( sorry new comp and i can't get the link but the pic is in my gallery ) and after washing everything with oxyper (down the drain) i rinse and then pour onto the garden lawn .I do not fill my fermenter. I use about 5 litres, a scrubbing brush and alot of shaking..I use hot water to clean my kegs..then iodopher
I even pour the yeast cake etc onto my apple and lime tree's..
I use iodophor to sanitise...no rinsing...and i mostly keg...
So , i'm feeling allright about making my own beer............
However.....
i'm building a wood fired pizza oven...that is a whole different kettle of wort....all that greenhouse gas and quality home made pizza...lol...and methane...hmmm
Cheers
FTB

 

[Snow]

ooh ooh! I forgot - my chickens eat all my spent grain.... do they fart less than cows? They produce eggs, which I eat.......but eggs make me fart..... is that good? I'm confused :huh:

 

[Ivan Other One]

ooh ooh! I forgot - my chickens eat all my spent grain.... do they fart less than cows? They produce eggs, which I eat.......but eggs make me fart..... is that good? I'm confused :huh:

So if one says that one doesn't give a shit,,,,,,,, does that mean one is a greenie??????? :unsure:

 

[manticle]

im not allowed to brew or drink stout due to my emissions

I'm super lucky my missus likes to partake of my stouts and they are probably her preferred manticle style HB.

 

[skippy]

I'm super lucky my missus likes to partake of my stouts and they are probably her preferred manticle style HB.

wtf