Is Beer Too Expensive?

[dgilks]

Patrick, it is worth remembering that Australian average salaries are about 20% higher than those in the US in local terms. You will also have to pay tax and tip on that pint of SNPA in the US and that pint is (at least) 20% smaller than our pints. I will also note that I pay anywhere between $7 and $9 for a pint of Australian micro brewed product in Canberra.

Nonetheless, I would love to see cheaper prices but they aren't quite as bad as we make them out to be when we take into account the differences.

ETA: By world class beer I do not mean SNPA or LCPA. I'm talking about beers like Flying Dog Gonzo, Trappistes Rochefort 10, Cantillon Gueuze, St Bernardus Abt 12 which all go for around the $8 to $10 mark for 330ml to 375ml.

 

[Leigh]

I'm sure companies would be happy to charge $6 for premium beers here if everybody agrees to a $15-18k pay drop...US average income is about $28k, Australian average income around $46k...after taxes etc the equation changes again...

 

[MarkBastard]

I'd be happy for all excise on alcohol to be removed.

The 10% GST should be enough for those pricks IMO.

 

[pbrosnan]

I'm sure companies would be happy to charge $6 for premium beers here if everybody agrees to a $15-18k pay drop...US average income is about $28k, Australian average income around $46k...after taxes etc the equation changes again...

I'm afraid you need more than a bland assertion, as I said I could buy a box of Chimay for less than the locally brewed Belgians, how do wages in Belgium compare? I suspect a lack of competition is the main problem. Still I'm happy to support Dan Murphy's as long as they continue supplying interesting beers at significantly lower prices. I'm not into supporting businesses through charity.

Interestingly here's the per capita GDP incomes of the 3 countries according to the IMF.

13 United States 47,440
14 Belgium 47,289
15 Australia 46,824

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...l%29_per_capita

 

[dgilks]

The GDP figures are irrelevant Patrick. The important figure is average weekly take home earnings, a measure on which Australia beats the US by 20 - 25%.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

While it doesn't specifically reference the Trappist Brewers of Belgium, the following is interesting:

http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgaller...ory_id=14288808

 

[pbrosnan]

The GDP figures are irrelevant Patrick. The important figure is average weekly take home earnings, a measure on which Australia beats the US by 20 - 25%.

Here's the figures I can find:

Australia AUS$66,820 US$45,767 ($AUD51,197.)

So you are a bit on the high side and it would depend a great deal on the exchange rate. What about Belgium then? BTW where are you getting you figures? And it would be interesting to compare wages at the craft brewing level. Are the craft brewers here paid as well as in the US? I still doubt that wages and taxes are the sole reason for the price discrepancy.

 

[reviled]

Remember to that the wowsers who run this country are not likely to support any kind of discounting/reductuion in the costs associated with alcohol given the current climate regarding drinking etc.

Cheers SJ

On the contrary, more likely to consider putting it up again

 

[Leigh]

The point I was trying to make Patrick, is that comparing prices between two different countries is a whole lot more complicated than what you make out. The numbers you get will depend on which survey you get them from...I'd suggest that the "average" craft brewer in the US gets a whole lot less cash than the averages suggest, as the US has a whole lot more billionaires who skew the average.


[edit] A quick google of Patricks numbers resulted in:

Median household income: AUS$66,820(higher then what most people actually make due to many duel income houses)

Household income is a loooot different to individual salaries...

[edit2] Further, the claimed US average income of $45,767 is actually the Parity Purchasing Power of the Australian average salary, i.e. IF you lived in the US, you would need to earn US$45,767 to be able to buy the same amount of goods as the average Australian household on $66,820...so has nothing to do with the actual US average salary...

 

[HoppingMad]

Patrick, it is worth remembering that Australian average salaries are about 20% higher than those in the US in local terms. You will also have to pay tax and tip on that pint of SNPA in the US and that pint is (at least) 20% smaller than our pints. I will also note that I pay anywhere between $7 and $9 for a pint of Australian micro brewed product in Canberra.

Nonetheless, I would love to see cheaper prices but they aren't quite as bad as we make them out to be when we take into account the differences.

ETA: By world class beer I do not mean SNPA or LCPA. I'm talking about beers like Flying Dog Gonzo, Trappistes Rochefort 10, Cantillon Gueuze, St Bernardus Abt 12 which all go for around the $8 to $10 mark for 330ml to 375ml.

Interesting that this debate has centred around SNPA and Flying Dog Gonzo.

Those were two of the three beers I selected! :lol:

The other one was a Hercules IPA.

You blokes been peeping into my shopping trolley?!!

Hopper.

 

[dgilks]

Interesting that this debate has centred around SNPA and Flying Dog Gonzo.

Those were two of the three beers I selected! :lol:

The other one was a Hercules IPA.

You blokes been peeping into my shopping trolley?!!

Hopper.

I almost included Hercules in my list. Interesting debate too.

 

[HoppingMad]

Now that's freaky! I'm going to be more careful where I shop! h34r:

Hopper

 

[jackmc]

I bought two four packs of the new Mad Abbot beers - one of the dubbel, one of the tripel - at Bitter and Twisted. It cost me $50 for 8 beers. $6.25 per 330ml bottle.

I'm happy to pay up for quality, and I love the beers from the Little Brewing Co. You won't see me lining up for a case (of the Mad Abbot line - their APA is a different story!), but I can't miss a sample.

What does get me mad is paying $8 for a bottle of generic Aussie lager at a restaurant :angry:

 

[Leigh]

What does get me mad is paying $8 for a bottle of generic Aussie lager at a restaurant :angry:

No argument from me! Also $8 for "imported" locally BUL beers...

 

[boingk]

I thought this whole issue was part of the reason we homebrew; as well as generally enjoying creating our own beer, we get to save some money on pricey/rare commercial examples.

Personally I'd like our beer to be cheaper. Its probably not gonna happen, ask Whitlam. He started what was effectively the beginning of an increasing tax on beer back in 1972...although he did also revoke a law mandating that you couldn't homebrew (well, not in excess of ~2% abv.).

So the debate rolls on. I think its fair that small-volume producers get a tax break to bring the wineries into line with them. Knowing the Government, however, if the issue is pushed they'll probably just up the tax on small-volume wineries.

- boingk

 

[Mr.Moonshine]

I'm amazed that the government doesn't catch on to the fact that we're internationally competitive and ready to really move into the international arena bigtime. I think people would be far more adventurous with their drinking if prices from microbreweries were a little more competitive.
Perhaps it's worth forming some kind of union/co-op for microbreweries to purchase goods through (akin to IGA), so they can get the benefit of scale discounts for grain/hops.

 

[.DJ.]

So the debate rolls on. I think its fair that small-volume producers get a tax break to bring the wineries into line with them. Knowing the Government, however, if the issue is pushed they'll probably just up the tax on small-volume wineries.

- boingk

wont happen becasue apparenly, a fair few pollies own vinyards...

 

[bigfridge]

At the risk of injecting a little data into this discussion, you really can't compare beer prices here and in the US due to our different alcohol taxes.

The excise that must be paid weekly to the ATO is '$41.06 per litre of alcohol calculated on that alcohol content by which the percentage by volume of alcohol of the goods exceeds 1.15%'.

This means that your 330ml bottle of VB (4.6% alcohol) has $0.47 in excise. Chimay Red (7.0 percent alcohol by volume) has $0.79 of excise. Each 1% of alcohol adds about 14 cents in excise, so a 10% special brew would have $1.20 in excise per 330 ml bottle.

Note excise is payable 'ex brewery' and as this cost ripples through the wholesaler/distributor/retailer, the costs tend to double due to the required profit margin and GST added on at the end. So our excise of $1.20 becomes $2.40 when our special 10% brew sits on the shelf.

Add to that the additional material costs (more that double or tripple due to increased losses and reduced efficiency of high alcohol brews), longer fermentation and conditioning times (which all cost energy for heating and cooling), and we have one expensive brew.

I think that we get pretty good value compared to the costs that the producers and retailer face.

HTH,
Dave

 

[pbrosnan]

I'd suggest that the "average" craft brewer in the US gets a whole lot less cash than the averages suggest, as the US has a whole lot more billionaires who skew the average.
[edit2] Further, the claimed US average income of $45,767 is actually the Parity Purchasing Power of the Australian average salary, i.e. IF you lived in the US, you would need to earn US$45,767 to be able to buy the same amount of goods as the average Australian household on $66,820...so has nothing to do with the actual US average salary...

Well you can suggest what you like but you haven't produced any figures. And I don't really see what you second point adds. And you still haven't addressed the price of Chimay. It's a pity that we can only buy sample sized amounts of these beers. If you get to like it you'll end up with a very expensive habit. And it's correct to say that the outrageous (remember 87 bucks for 12 330ml stubbies) price is part of the reason to brew, it would be nice to have an sensible option though.

 

[Leigh]

Dear Patrick,

Do you honestly think I am an idiot? You raise an issue regarding prices of SNPA between USA and Australia...we (it was more than just I) meerely pointed out that that is unlikely to be a reasonable comparison...and I did produce figures (as meaningless as they are) of average incomes, not GDP per capita or household income or some other even less relevant number....

Being backed into a corner, you then throw up Chimay? I am not into your trolling games. If I respond (with many issues related to Belgium), I have no doubt you'll have another country with another beer.

By all means, keep persisting with your ill-informed understanding of international salaries, labour costs, taxes, pricing parity, tariffs, shipping costs etc etc etc but I aint gonna research each example for you.

I re-state the bottom line, it aint that simple.

Cheers
Leigh