Husky's 2.5BBL Collaboration Brewery Build - 3V 300L

[husky]

After a very busy year or so I finally have some time to revisit a project I have had in mind for a very long time. Looking at putting together a 2.5BBL professional grade pilot plant for anywhere up to a 200L packaged volume. The primary use will be for collaboration brew days as it turns out it's quite good fun drinking beers and brewing beer with others!. The other thought I had was that potentially it could be rented out to micros for trial batches which I'm thinking would be a great way to have some involvement in the craft industry.
Some info and questions below:

Design Brief
100L final packaged volume high gravity brewery, think RIS and big IPA's - 5 x 20L collab cubes
Ability to be pushed to 200L of 1.060 OG packaged volume pilot plant - 4 x 50L kegs
Collaboration brewery &/or future pilot brewery
2V + HLT - Can easily add future seperate WP for back to back brew days
2 x wort pumps to allow mash recirc same time as WP for double batches
Replicate larger scale functionality
PLC for basic programming operations and trending(& fun factor)
Operation station with HMI
Semi portable - Skid mounted
Mostly electric except kettle but provisions for 10kW future electric kettle elements
Spacious design to allow future upsizing, piping layout changes, grant, hopback etc

HLT - 480L
Tall and skinny to save footprint
1 x 4500W x 2 x 2400W elements - Heat up over night
Recirculation pump for temperature uniformity
Level transmitter for volume calculation
Temperature transmitter
Future insulation and cladding

MT/LT - 210L
Short and wide for lower working height
Maximum grain = 60kg for 500mm bed depth
4 x outlet lines
perforated sheet false bottom
Front manway for spent grain removal
3 x 1kw electric belt heaters for maintaining and possibly ramping temperature
Recirculation capability
Future HERMS or RIMS space
Gravity lauter to kettle(can also pump)
Fly sparge from HLT
Diaphram valve to restrict lauter flow rate
Sight glass in lauter line
Temperature transmitter

KT/WP - 300L
Short and very wide suit gravity from mash and aid whirlpool
Gas fired by single KK burner. Maybe future electric 10kW depending on how gas goes
Whirlpool through strainer and chiller to sterilise
Chill and oxygenate on the way to fermenter

My questions are:

- Un decided on wort pumps. Originally I had one shared with MT and KT but this will slow a double brew day. Contemplating adding a second wort pump for mash and kettle. For collab brews one pump is fine but if used as a pilot plant would it be a valuable addition?

- Chiller. No chill for collab brews is fine but as a pilot plant I want to add a chiller. Blichman have a pro series range that has tri clamp fittings that looks the goods. Anyone else have experience with larger chillers? Other option is to jacket the kettle and chill that way but I'm trying to replicate a true micro process who all seem to plate chill on the way to fermenter so want the same here.

- Pumps. Who has experience with larger pumps? I'm thinking either March AC-5SSBMD or one of the MD100 type that are available on ebay.

- Very interested in opinions from those who have worked in a micro regarding the process. Is there anything that would be good to have functionality wise with regards to usefulness as a pilot plant?

- Does the idea of renting to micros seem valid? Is there a need for this kind of think in the industry? Would be easier to justify the costs to the missus if I could argue a valid business case! I wouldn't expect it to ever pay for itself but more as a way to have some contact with the craft industry and get a portion of the costs back. The idea came from a conversation with the Kaiju guys who mentioned they had got their hands on a small trial plant for test batches which got me thinking there may be a valid need there.


Currently have a skid 50% built, HLT 50% built, kettle 80% built. Working on mash tun and pipework shortly. Also need to finalise electrical design and start ordering all the components. It will have the same PLC my 20L brewery has so there's a fair bit of time involved in electrical and automation yet. I did think about adding actuated valves to automate further but decided against it, could easily be added later if required.

Some design pics and progress below. Looking for Melb collab brew partners in Summer 17 with any luck!

 

[malt junkie]

Check these pumps, out native 50Hz just be ready to adjust for (UK) gallons and feet. Their web page is a little clunky but might be worth it.
BTW there is no way of hiding a building addiction from the wife, especially when you build BIG SHINY stuff! It sorta stands out.

 

[technobabble66]

Go, husky, go!!! [emoji1]

Totes subscribed to this thread!

Looks the ducks nuts, and the dual purpose is a good idea.
Just out of interest, would it be possible to swap in the large 900L kettle from the recent case swap, and shuffle down the planned vessels you mention above, in order to go from 200L batches to 500-600L batches?
I was just thinking 200L is good for a pilot size, but 500-600L is maybe big enough for use as full size gypsy brewing batches. So you might also get a second group of (semi-) pro Brewers interested.
Whatcha think?

 

[technobabble66]

My 2c on your questions:
Not much help on pumps, but you definitely want a larger gauge than the standard mag pumps we use. From there it depends entirely on budget. You'd definitely be better off with 2, but if you needed to save the $200(?) it'd be doable with 1.

Definitely go a plate chiller. The heat exchange capacity of plate chillers is impressive, and probably not matched by any other configuration at the size you're looking at.
I'd wonder if a 60 or maybe even a 30 plate chiller would suffice for your 200L capacity. Pretty sure the 30 would be ok, just not sure if you went to 500-600L if it'd be sufficient.
(TBH, I haven't checked the Blichmann ones so maybe I'm missing something important).


The pilot idea seems like it could be a goer, but I'd wonder if there might be a size able demand for any homebrewer who wants to try their hand at gypsy brewing and 500-600L might be a good starting point?

PS: where are you located, roughly, husky? (On phone)

 

[GrumpyPaul]

my 2cents....

build some sort of steps/platform so that shortaes brewers (like me) can climb up and see inside the vessels. Looks like this could be built over some of the pumps and pipe work.

Just a thought - because standing on a dirty old upturned milk crate next to all that shiny stainless just doesnt cut it

 

[JB]

OMG Husky, they'll be making movies about you one day mate ... the good type

 

[Adr_0]

- Chiller. No chill for collab brews is fine but as a pilot plant I want to add a chiller. Blichman have a pro series range that has tri clamp fittings that looks the goods. Anyone else have experience with larger chillers? Other option is to jacket the kettle and chill that way but I'm trying to replicate a true micro process who all seem to plate chill on the way to fermenter so want the same here.

- Pumps. Who has experience with larger pumps? I'm thinking either March AC-5SSBMD or one of the MD100 type that are available on ebay.

Regarding the chiller, are you confident you could filter the boiled wort well enough and pump through a plate chiller or would you use gravity? You might want to consider an SS immersion chiller with a motorbike radiator/fan on the liquid side... or glycol. The post-boil volume would need to be fairly consistent so that the height/width of the coil can be sized effectively, and you might want a pivot point to allow it to be rocked slightly - my experience anyway.

Regarding the pumps, 3/4" or 1" would be a definite recommended inlet size and suction piping to match. If you have access to eccentric reducers, ensure the flat side is up going into the pump. I don't have experience with these specific pumps but have experience up to about 1MW multi-stage Sulzer type pumps. You could also do speed control with either a triac circuit (3-5A) as the load reduces with speed, or a PWM/SSR. You should also put a flow transmitter if possible on the outlet - not compulsory but would be great for consistent step flowrate (high) vs sparging/transfer flowrate and ramps on these. "3/4 water flow meter" searches should get you something, but I'd definitely get spares. You'll have to correlate frequency with flowrate of course and find a suitable input somewhere.


Looks awesome, and a great idea. I'm guessing electric elements become a big bottlneck above 150L or so with 250L probably only giving you 0.5°C/min with 10kW in the mash. Definitely need good flow and good flow distribution to realise this though, so good to see the mash tun wide and short.

 

[husky]

MJ - I'll see what those pumps work out to cost. Might still be more exy than mag pumps as they will need a flushed seal to prevent oxygen getting sucked in and to handle the boiling temps.

Techno - A bigger version is another project altogether. Half the reason the BFK got over the line was it makes a future bigger system easy. I started a bigger one before this one but put on hold as I want something that can see regular use. 200L was the upper limit for this I thought. I still have all the parts for a 900L MT ready to go one day(needs a week of fab though) so all it would take is another BFK for a HLT and you have a 600L system but that really is next level stuff when you start talking regular 600L batches. Also I'm not sure how a rental system running LPG would go with regs so the 200L can be easily converted to electric but the BFK electric is $3k of element. I'm in SE Melbs btw.

Grumpy - Has been purposely designed to be accessible from the ground. There is space to stand to the skid to reach the bottom of the MT but it has a front manway anyway so access to clean out is good.

Adr_0 - I will be filtering prior to plate chiller(theres a Y strained in the light blue pipework) hence I want a big pump here to push through a fouled filter, plate chiller then into a possibly 2m high fermenter. How would flow control on single phase work? I have been asking for motor options in either DC or 3 phase so I could control. I have a flow meter but not sure I'll put it in. Might just use a cheap calorific meter to get a relative flow rate but not absolutely accurate. The mash tun will have 3kw heat belts and possibly a HERMS one day. Power should not be a bottle neck as Ebrew have some good high power elements and I will soon have 50A in the shed. If the BK went electric though I would be looking for a separate WP tank unless you can still get a good cone with elements in the bottom.

 

[homebrewnewb]

I asked Moondog what they use to move their wort around.
Josh recommended; Centrifugal stainess and wet parts.
http://www.fallsdell.com.au/prods_new/ProductDetail.asp?PageNo=0080&SubGroup=flomax

 

[TheWiggman]

Single phase VSDs can be had fairly cheaply and are also a viable alternative to a motor starter. My experience with them is limited but controlling speed remotely shouldn't be hard if you've got a graphical PLC frontend. In fact if you have the right control program you could even control it using feedback from a temp probe i.e. it will throttle flow to achieve a target temp through a chiller. With minimal head in a system like this a centrifugal pump will control well.

A gasketed plate heat exchanger would be ideal (like this Alfa Laval unit) but I haven't come across any that a suitably small for this application. With a pre-filter and regular caustic clean the Blichmann should do the job but I can envisage the filter clogging quickly. My understanding was the micros whirlpool to begin with then after some separation of solids move to chilling. In your application I would whirlpool directly back into the kettle, and after 20 mins or so direct some of the flow to the chiller and allow to either transfer to a fermenter or chill back into the whirlpool.

Regarding pumps, a second pump would allow to fly sparge while pumping from the mash tun to the kettle. If I were a running a pilot brewery this is what I would want, or at the very least I'd want that facility. It would also allow you to clean while doing the whirlpool or transfer to fermenter.

Ed: I've said it before and I'll say it again Husky, you're out of control.

 

[MartinOC]

Let's play "Spot the Engineer with a passion for beer". Never known one that didn't...

 

[droid]

i mean whaddya say?

cool as man!

 

[Tony121]

A gasketed plate heat exchanger would be ideal (like this Alfa Laval unit) but I haven't come across any that a suitably small for this application.

Just as a note, Alfa Laval will build to your specifications if need be. Though cost may be getting well up there.

Good luck with it Husky, something I wish I had the ability to do.

 

[Mardoo]

You could have a look at the SABCO plate CFC. It's pricey, currently about $1200 AU shipped but fully cleanable, which would be much more attractive for small-batch brewers, IMHAO.

https://www.brewmagic.com/products/plate-pro-sanitary-wort-chiller/

 

[husky]

I asked Moondog what they use to move their wort around.
Josh recommended; Centrifugal stainess and wet parts.
http://www.fallsdell.com.au/prods_new/ProductDetail.asp?PageNo=0080&SubGroup=flomax

Have asked them for a quote, don't think they do double mechanical seal as an option though.

Single phase VSDs can be had fairly cheaply and are also a viable alternative to a motor starter. My experience with them is limited but controlling speed remotely shouldn't be hard if you've got a graphical PLC frontend. In fact if you have the right control program you could even control it using feedback from a temp probe i.e. it will throttle flow to achieve a target temp through a chiller. With minimal head in a system like this a centrifugal pump will control well.

A gasketed plate heat exchanger would be ideal (like this Alfa Laval unit) but I haven't come across any that a suitably small for this application. With a pre-filter and regular caustic clean the Blichmann should do the job but I can envisage the filter clogging quickly. My understanding was the micros whirlpool to begin with then after some separation of solids move to chilling. In your application I would whirlpool directly back into the kettle, and after 20 mins or so direct some of the flow to the chiller and allow to either transfer to a fermenter or chill back into the whirlpool.

Regarding pumps, a second pump would allow to fly sparge while pumping from the mash tun to the kettle. If I were a running a pilot brewery this is what I would want, or at the very least I'd want that facility. It would also allow you to clean while doing the whirlpool or transfer to fermenter.

Ed: I've said it before and I'll say it again Husky, you're out of control.

My mill runs a 3 phase motor on VSD from a single phase but pretty sure it doesn't work the other way with a single phase motor.
We use Alfa Laval a lot for work but I'm too scared to ask them for a price on this, might ping them an email for interest sake but suspect it would be min $3k
I am doing 2 pumps but the question is 2 or 3. Pump 1 is HLT to MT, pump 2 is all wort transfer from MT/KT. Question is to add third to allow MT and KT their own pump so can recirc MT at same time as WP if double batching. Pretty sure I've convinced myself to go 3 pumps.
Out of control yes!

Let's play "Spot the Engineer with a passion for beer". Never known one that didn't...

Correct! but craft beer

i mean whaddya say?

cool as man!

yes should be pretty cool when done.

Just as a note, Alfa Laval will build to your specifications if need be. Though cost may be getting well up there.

Good luck with it Husky, something I wish I had the ability to do.

Yeah there's quote a few that will build one to spec but for this volume not sure the $$ are justified. Will get some quotes and see.

You could have a look at the SABCO plate CFC. It's pricey, currently about $1200 AU shipped but fully cleanable, which would be much more attractive for small-batch brewers, IMHAO.

https://www.brewmagic.com/products/plate-pro-sanitary-wort-chiller/

Haven't seen that one. Probably borderline size wise at 10LPM design work flow. 20-25 min transfer to fermenter could be a bit much for really hoppy beer. Possibly an option though.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Single phase VSDs aren't common but they are available, one example here: http://www.invertekdrives.com/variable-speed-drives/optidrive-e2-single-phase/

20mins for cast out is pretty standard timing, it allows the use of smaller HX and pumps. No point in thrashing things when you don't need to.

In your shoes I'd be looking to put some form of trub trap in the whirlpool rather than a filter in the cast out line. Commercial scale breweries don't need to, whirpool efficiency scales with diameter.

 

[Mardoo]

Haven't seen that one. Probably borderline size wise at 10LPM design work flow. 20-25 min transfer to fermenter could be a bit much for really hoppy beer. Possibly an option though.

What I do for hoppy beers is use an immersion chiller to knock the temp down to 70C in 5 minutes time. That gets the temp below isomerisation AND volatilisation temps for most hop oils. Might be worth thinking about such a thing. Might not be worth spending on it.

Also, in addition to what LC said, you're not going to get a crapload more isomerisation after a 60-90 minute boil. It's not a straight-line process. The majority of the isomerisation will have occurred at that point. Enough so that the additional amount could be estimated to an acceptable degree.

 

[pcqypcqy]

What's a manway cost? I know you're looking to do a slick commercial style system, but could you just use a chain hoist , davit arm, or other method to lift the MLT and tip it for quick emptying? I'm thinking of doing this in my own home 3v system so I can just dump it out hot and clean it straight away. MLT cleaning at the end of a brew day is my most hated chore.

 

[malt junkie]

Mash Tun

Just as a comparison very tall, your probably looking at 750mm wide tun. How wide did you go on the kettle/whirlpool or what height width ratio did you go with.

 

[Mardoo]

Nice.