How to step mash this Rye Robust Porter..

[jeddog]

I want to try my first step mash using the "Rye Robust Porter" recipe from the RecipeDB.


I have sort of set up my brew rig using my old immersion chiller as a HERMS to do step mash manually in my HLT.

My HLT has 2x2200W elements and I have tried one for ramping and it has no a problem doing it.
My plate chiller is only there to give me an idea of what the temp is and will not be used when mashing. I'm thinking of a 16A kegking temp controller to control that one element for mashing.



My question is what temps should I uses to step mash this linky beer I'm trying to doing?

jeddog

 

[Barry]

I am not an expert at rye beers but I can give you some idea.

I would start at 50-55oC for 10-15 minutes, 63-640C for 60-70oC minutes then 70oC for 15 minutes. Sparge slowly 80-85oC (water temp).

Someone might have better hands on experience.

 

[manticle]

What result do you want?
Mashing low for 60 won't leave a lot for alpha amylase.
Depends how much body you want.
My understanding is that rye adds to mouthfeel but I've no experience with using it. Might want to look at beta-glucan rest if used in large amounts though.

 

[Phoney]

The last time I tried to brew a thirty something percent Rye grain bill it ended up scorching the element and made the beer taste like burnt toast & ashtray. I since read a lot of other folks have experienced the same problem, and not doing a protein rest can help. (though not that I ever bother with step mashing) I would love to know how to avoid this other than go gas or reduce rye.

 

[TidalPete]

I've had a few successes with ----

Mash in @ 34.
42 for 20 min.
54 for 10 min.
66 for 30 min.
72 for 30 min.
Mash out @ 78.

I use gas not electric though so have no element problems in the boil.

 

[Tony]

I have brewerd with a lot of Rye over the years and to be honest, you dont need to do any special mash steps for it. Just mash as you would normally. THe main thing i have found is to mash a bit cooler than normal to get better attenuation, because a sweet underattenuated beer just doesnt work with the slick oily rye. ITs too much. You want a dryer beer for ballance.

THe trick is in the sparging.

It will give you a nice oily slick mouthfeel, but Rye does not give up its goodness easily. Depending on the crush of the Rye, it can also turn your mash to porridge, that wont flow for anyones daughter!

THere will usually be two camps on using rye..... the course crushers and the finer crushers. Course will flow a lot easier in the sparge but wont give up a good deal of its oily goodness. To get that oily mouthfeel, i found cruishing finer and sparging slowly with 75 to 80 deg water is the go. You will need about 1 to 2 liters volume of rice gulls per kilo of Rye used as well. DONT SKIMP ON THE GULLS!

Rye malt is smaller than barley or wheat, and if run through a mill with the barley, it will end up very coursly crushed. I used to run it through seperately a couple of times to really break it up, but not to a powder..... that would be a brewers punnishment in hell.... brewing beer with powdered rye

I would go with infusions if i were you because you wont be able to guarantee flow rates for a HERMS setup that you have not really used a lot by the sounds of it. could be more trouble than its worth.

mash in thick at 55 deg for 10 min
Infuse to 64 deg for 45 min
Infuse to 71 for 15 min
Infuse to 77 and drain
Sparge at 75 to 80 deg slowly slowly slowly.

A few other little tips.

Allow an extra hour or 2 to your brew day when using Rye, just in case.
Dont try and filter it when its done.......no fun at all, trust me!


Have fun

Cheers

 

[stakka82]

What result do you want?
Mashing low for 60 won't leave a lot for alpha amylase.
Depends how much body you want.
My understanding is that rye adds to mouthfeel but I've no experience with using it. Might want to look at beta-glucan rest if used in large amounts though.

Depends how much work alpha is doing at 62 degrees is my understanding... If discounting the action of alpha at 62 degrees there is only so far the beta can get to without the alpha freeing up more dextrins/amylose for the beta to feed on.

I have been trying to find a graph showing relative alpha activity at around the 62 degree mark to determine optimal rest time at this point which preserves body but increases attenuation (using a 62/63 72/73 step regime) assuming ph of 5.4ish but have not had any success. Anyone else found something like this around?

I currently employ 63/73 for 30 mins each and have been very happy with the results as compared to single infusion at 66. However would like some technical info about different rest times rather than brewing 50l of the same beer 4 times with different length 62/73 degree rests.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

The last time I tried to brew a thirty something percent Rye grain bill it ended up scorching the element and made the beer taste like burnt toast & ashtray. I since read a lot of other folks have experienced the same problem, and not doing a protein rest can help. (though not that I ever bother with step mashing) I would love to know how to avoid this other than go gas or reduce rye.

I use gas not electric though so have no element problems in the boil.

Scorching problems during the boil? Once it's wort, why do the mash ingredients have an effect on the boil?

 

[Mardoo]

Neither On nor Off topic:

Any difference in standard technique for a BIAB rye porter? I happen to be about to make one. Rice hulls as Tony mentions? Not? Anything else?

 

[Tony]

Rice Gulls Mardoo........ its said Rice Gulls

They are good if you have a FB that may get stuck but im not sure if you would need them in a bag?

Im no BIAB expert but if you did use them, id say use less

 

[Phoney]

Scorching problems during the boil? Once it's wort, why do the mash ingredients have an effect on the boil?

Buggered if I know the details. All I have read is a lot of brewers who have a scorched element have either done a protein rest or have a large percentage of rye in their grain bills. Maybe something to do with protein? alpha, beta, charlie and those guys.


eg: http://www.homebrewchatter.com/board/showthread.php?t=17720
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/64886-charred-element-burnt-taste-sad-face/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/protein-rest-causing-scorched-element-319369/

Neither On nor Off topic:

Any difference in standard technique for a BIAB rye porter? I happen to be about to make one. Rice hulls as Tony mentions? Not? Anything else?

You'll find when you hoist the bag, 50% of the liquid will remain in the bag and you'll need to do the ole two saucepan lid squeeze to get it all out. BIAB version of a stuck sparge.

I brewed an ipa last weekend with only 12% rye and this happened to an extent.

 

[Mardoo]

Rice Gulls Mardoo........ its said Rice Gulls

But I heard only to use rice gulls in my largers?

 

[jeddog]

Thanks for the replay everyone. I'm really looking forward to going to the next level with my brewing. This brew will be the first of many and I hope it all works as its ment to.

Cheers

 

[Barry]

All the best mate.

 

[jeddog]

Today's brew day went flawlessly.
Had near 22kg grain bill (triple batch) had to fit into my 55lt keggle mash tun. Used my Hex coil (converted copper heat exchanger) for the first time. I had two kegking temp controllers. One for the outlet on the HEX and the other on the outlet to the mash tun. The controller for the hex is connected to one of two 2200W elements in my HLT and the mash tun outlet is connected to the second element. I had this set to approx 6C lower than the hex (although I did have to watch what where the temp was heading) . I used 35lts to the 22kg of grain which just fit my mash tun. Grain to mash ratio was1.8kg/Lt (that's all I could fit). I mashed in at 50C and let it raise to 65C which took an hour and 20 mins then let it recirculate for 90min (both temp controllers levelled out with only 2C between them) before mashing out at 78C. I fly sparged at a rate of approx 1.5lts/min. I had no real problem recirculating. It just got very slow when nearing the required 75lts.
I ended up with 55lts at 1.072 OG
Over the last week or so Iv made three 4lt starter. When the first starter fermented out I chilled and poured off the wort then re-pitched it to a new 4lts of starter. I did this 3 times. So I had a big healthy yeast ready to go. I chilled 3lts of today's brew 10 mins into boil and had it on the stir plate for pitching later. The WLP002 loved the new wort within 15mins on the stir plate she was rocking. Straight after flame out I ran the wort through my 60 plate chiller in under 10 mins to pitching temp (love this chiller). I bought a oxygen kit from a "Connor breware" that arrived this week and gave the wort a whack of O2 for about a min then chucked it in the fermenting fridge at 18.5C an hour later gave it another minute of O2. An hour later this "Rye Robust Porter" is bubbling away nicely.

What a day. It was long. I started at 6.30am and finished at 1pm but as we all do, I loved it every minute of it

And yes Tony "Rice Gulls" where added as they are to all my brews

 

[jeddog]

****'in back!!!

It took off like a rocket. I got **** everywhere. It lost about 7lts from the over flow
OG was 1.072
Two day later down to 1.024

http://youtu.be/LMdiMV60KOc




edit. spelling