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How Much Lager Yeast To Pitch?

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O-beer-wan-kenobi

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I am about to have a go at a lager kit. I have been reading up on this heaps so I am prepared and know what method to follow.

One of the issues I have come across is how much lager yeast to use? I plan to use the Fermentis Saflager yeast S-23 but the kit I was looking at has one 11g sachet to use but the recommendation on Fermentis website is two 11g sachets when fermenting at low temperatures.

Can anyone quickly clear this up for me with an explanation why they recommend two?
Is this the same for all/other lager yeasts?
 

Fodder

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I believe its due to your lower ferment temps and making sure there's enough yeast to do the job - thus the double dose.

I dont really know what I'm talking about though so others will explain better than I...

Nonetheless, what ferment temp are you aiming for?
 

O-beer-wan-kenobi

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Well I was thinking of doing it at 10 -12 degrees which according to Fermentis needs 2
 

donburke

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I am about to have a go at a lager kit. I have been reading up on this heaps so I am prepared and know what method to follow.

One of the issues I have come across is how much lager yeast to use? I plan to use the Fermentis Saflager yeast S-23 but the kit I was looking at has one 11g sachet to use but the recommendation on Fermentis website is two 11g sachets when fermenting at low temperatures.

Can anyone quickly clear this up for me with an explanation why they recommend two?
Is this the same for all/other lager yeasts?

i'll wing it here ...

when pitching your yeast, you are relying on a certain level of yeast cell multiplication before the population is at ideal numbers to ferment your entire batch

the growth rate is higher at warmer temperatures than it is at cooler temperatures

so if pitching cool, you will have less growth, which means you need to start with more yeast cells to allow for this lower multiplication rate

pitch the 2 packs at 10 deg and keep it at 10 deg during fermentation for s23
 

yum beer

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if you dont wont to use two packs step yourself a starter over 2-3 days before brewing.
500ml water-50 gm LDM boiled for 10 minutes, allow to cool and add yeast, cover, give it a swirl every so often.
After 24 hours step up to 1 litre. Then step to 2 litres 24 hours later. Ready to pitch next day.


***look up yeast starter for more detailed info.



or simply add 2 packs

starter is preferable
 

O-beer-wan-kenobi

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Thanks for the advice guys.

I will look up the starter option.

This raises another question I have, does hydrating the yeast have any real benefit? I have read a lot of conflicting posts for and against?
 

Wolfy

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if you dont wont to use two packs step yourself a starter over 2-3 days before brewing.
500ml water-50 gm LDM boiled for 10 minutes, allow to cool and add yeast, cover, give it a swirl every so often.
After 24 hours step up to 1 litre. Then step to 2 litres 24 hours later. Ready to pitch next day.
An 11g pack of yeast is designed to be pitched directly into about 20L of standard gravity ale wort, the yeast are 'packed' with nutrients and ready to go.
Using such a small starter is much more likely to harm the yeast health than do any good, in addition with such a small starter size - the yeast will consume the sugars very quickly and - there will be little-to-no cell growth.
In general it's not a good idea to make starters for dry yeast, but the typical lager-starter-size is at least 5 L (or larger).

This raises another question I have, does hydrating the yeast have any real benefit? I have read a lot of conflicting posts for and against?
The 'Yeast' book indicates that you suffer up to 50% loss of yeast-cells if you do not rehydrate the yeast correctly.
However yeast is such a resilient thing and will multiply their numbers quickly, that many home-brewers do not rehydrate and find their fermenting results more than adequate.
 

cdbrown

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2 packs, rehydrate and you'll have some healthy yeast with minimal lag time before strong signs of ferment. Underpitch and it'll stress the yeast, throw out some funky flavours and increase the chance of an infection as the long lag time of the yeast allows any bacteria in the wort to take hold. Then plan your next brew to be a lager and reuse the yeast.
 

O-beer-wan-kenobi

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Thanks for the answers guys.

I mentioned in a previous post that there is conflicting advice for rehydrating and pitching dry yeast directly, and the same has happened in this thread ;) . Looks like there are arguments for both so I may give it a go and see for myself.
An 11g pack of yeast is designed to be pitched directly into about 20L of standard gravity ale wort, the yeast are 'packed' with nutrients and ready to go.
Using such a small starter is much more likely to harm the yeast health than do any good, in addition with such a small starter size - the yeast will consume the sugars very quickly and - there will be little-to-no cell growth.
In general it's not a good idea to make starters for dry yeast, but the typical lager-starter-size is at least 5 L (or larger).


The 'Yeast' book indicates that you suffer up to 50% loss of yeast-cells if you do not rehydrate the yeast correctly.
However yeast is such a resilient thing and will multiply their numbers quickly, that many home-brewers do not rehydrate and find their fermenting results more than adequate.

2 packs, rehydrate and you'll have some healthy yeast with minimal lag time before strong signs of ferment. Underpitch and it'll stress the yeast, throw out some funky flavours and increase the chance of an infection as the long lag time of the yeast allows any bacteria in the wort to take hold. Then plan your next brew to be a lager and reuse the yeast.


Reusing the yeast sounds interesting too. I will do a search. Any tips on where to look or how to do it?
 

Wolfy

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I mentioned in a previous post that there is conflicting advice for rehydrating and pitching dry yeast directly, and the same has happened in this thread ;) . Looks like there are arguments for both so I may give it a go and see for myself.
Yep, once you have a procedure that produces good results for your setup, equipment and methods - stick to it. As I mentioned above (unlike most other beer-ingredients) yeast is a living culture so it will multiply, adapt and more-often-than-not still do its best to ferment your beer.
I don't pretend to be an expert, however the information I suggested above (and the MrMalty pitching calculator link) comes from 'industry experts' - Chris White (from WhiteLabs) and Jamil Zainasheff, some from their Yeast book, and the rest from The Brewing Network podcasts - I figure if anyone knows what they're talking about it should be them. :)
Reusing the yeast sounds interesting too. I will do a search. Any tips on where to look or how to do it?
This thread should be a good place to start: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=55409
 

O-beer-wan-kenobi

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Thanks Wolfy. I have been looking at your posts and the one on Rinsing Yeast is Awesome.

I have pitched 2 x 11g of Saflager-23 into my wort and plan to rinse the yeast when it is finished.

I have one question though, if it is a concern of under pitching yeast is there any issue with over pitching? Would it be wise to throw in more yeast to make sure or does this affect the taste or process?
 

Wolfy

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I have one question though, if it is a concern of under pitching yeast is there any issue with over pitching? Would it be wise to throw in more yeast to make sure or does this affect the taste or process?
The yeast multiplication process imparts flavours to the beer that can be important (most especially for English Ale type beers) to the final character.
There were some experiments (on German HB forums I think) that concluded that if you pitch 'too much' yeast then it can have a negative impact on the beer, you want some yeast cell growth for a better and more healthy ferment.
What 'too much' is is hard to quantify and is likely a significant amount (4-5 packs in your example at a guess) - in general - as home brewers - there is more risk pitching too little yeast than too much.
 

HoppingMad

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The 'Yeast' book indicates that you suffer up to 50% loss of yeast-cells if you do not rehydrate the yeast correctly.
However yeast is such a resilient thing and will multiply their numbers quickly, that many home-brewers do not rehydrate and find their fermenting results more than adequate.
+1 to the first line, not so sure about the second line.

Chris White (Whitelabs USA) and Jess Caudil (Wyeastlabs USA) shared a stage at ANHC 2010 on the subject of Yeast Management and both said that by not hydrating as per the manufacturer's specification halves your yeast cell count, and makes your ferment much more prone to stalling.

I know what I'd be doing.

Hopper.
 

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