How Do You First Wort Hop And/or Mash Hop

[randyrob]

I wouldn't say that.
http://www.paddockwood.com/article_info.ph...a26c1030c47a4ed

WOW, nice find tangent! that certainly has encouraged me to give it a go!
mash hop/fw hop only here we come!

the only thing is it always makes you wonder if this works why do ppl bother with a hopback/dry hopping
if u can get the aroma you want this way... i guess there is more than one way to skin a cat (or skunk as it may be in this case )

Rob.

 

[Ross]

WOW, nice find tangent! that certainly has encouraged me to give it a go!
mash hop/fw hop only here we come!

the only thing is it always makes you wonder if this works why do ppl bother with a hopback/dry hopping
if u can get the aroma you want this way... i guess there is more than one way to skin a cat (or skunk as it may be in this case )

Rob.

Read back through the thread - It was that article that got me to make a 100% mash hopped beer. Ended up with low hop flavour & no hop aroma. I was using highly aromatic USA hops in a low alc Amber beer - I can assure you that mash hopping is a waste of hops. There again, maybe I should keep my lips sealed & keep the sales coming ...

cheers Ross

 

[Batz]

I guess an Aussie Ale is different,but I mash hop with this style and it works great! (and of coures fresh POR)
Never tried it with another style.

Batz

 

[randyrob]

Read back through the thread - It was that article that got me to make a 100% mash hopped beer. Ended up with low hop flavour & no hop aroma. I was using highly aromatic USA hops in a low alc Amber beer - I can assure you that mash hopping is a waste of hops. There again, maybe I should keep my lips sealed & keep the sales coming ...

cheers Ross

Thanks for clearing that up for me Ross, i think its a given that homebrewers will tinker even when it's not broke!

i've just got my hops in the mail and can't wait to use them (anything has to be better than those old stale hops i get from LHBS)

thank you very much for the personal prompt service!


Rob.

 

[amiddler]

With first wort hopping do people still add flavor, aroma hop additions (10-20min) or fully rely on FWH for the flavor and aroma? I am going to do a Pilsner, Saaz SMASH using FWH but do I still add a late hop edition or not?

Drew

 

[Ross]

Yes if the original recipe called for it, FWH is not a total replacement for late hops

cheers Ross

 

[Mikedub]

I dunno why but this continues to perplex haunt me,
I'm brewing tomorrow and want to give FWH a crack, I've read you move late hops up into FWH, in this case 50gs of 5 and 10 min additions, selecting the FWH option in Brewmate adjusts the IBU by just a few points, then my brain tells me I should adjust the time in Brewmate from 5 and 10mins to 60min to reflect the time it will be in the boil, obviously this blows the IBU's way higher than intended.
this cant be right can it? or should I be offsetting IBUs elsewhere?
cheers
Mike

 

[Mikedub]

reposting this from last night as mashing atm and need some input

I'm brewing today and want to give FWH a crack, I've read you move late hops up into FWH, in this case 50gs of 5 and 10 min additions, selecting the FWH option in Brewmate adjusts the IBU by just a few points, then my brain tells me I should adjust the time in Brewmate from 5 and 10mins to 60min to reflect the time it will be in the boil, obviously this blows the IBU's way higher than intended.
this cant be right can it? or should I be offsetting IBUs elsewhere?
cheers
Mike

 

[Jazzafish]

Personally I would call it a 60min boil for IBU calc. Add FWH as soon as wort hits kettle to steep until boil.

 

[felten]

The longer you boil the hops, the more IBU's you'll get, beersmith2 reckons it's a 10% increase when using FWH. So yes you should offset the IBUs from your bittering addition.

 

[big78sam]

Just had time to re-read all this properly. Stuster, thanks for answering the Beersmith question.

Consensus so far seems to be that mash hopping is a waste of hops.

This leaves FWH which if I understand correctly requires a little more than double the hops you'd use in a 60 minute addition.

I can't see anywhere above a description of the advantage/s of FWH. Does anyone know what they are? I have heard elsewhere that it gives a smoother profile.

Coincidentally, I FWHed for the first time on Monday and I used the above as a guide, i.e. I used roughly double the amount of hops I would need at a 60 minute addition. This seems to conflict with som either comments above. I have no idea how this will turn out now as the resultant wort is still in the cube.

I read all sorts of conflicting information about IBUs online so I guess I'll see how bitter this one turns out.

I have since found this so I may end up with a really bitter beer

"I FWH a majority of my beers. I really like the improved hop flavor and smooth bitterness it gives me. I did an experiment a few years back with a split batch, one half using only FWH and the other half with the same amount of the same hops as only a 60 min. addition. I had the beers analyzed for IBU and although the FWH beer measured slightly higher, it actually tasted less bitter. "
http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/question...e-results-worth

 

[Mikedub]

cheers guys, I've got 180g of hops in this APA, think I'll go FWH 60g, and keep the rest of schedule in place, including some cube and dry hopping , think I'll run 5l wort off post mash and FWH in that, adding it back in at 45min boil mark with usual bittering additions to offset the NC hopping schedule, feeling experimental

 

[Florian]

I think it's easiest to use FWH with a 90 minute boil, as AA isomeration has reached its limit at 90 minutes boil anyway, so there is not really much bitterness to add. With a 60 minute boil it's not quite clear when exactly the isomeration starts, e.g. once the wort reaches 85 or 95 degrees, so it's harder to calculate the actual bitterness added.

I FWH all my beers, boiling for 90 minutes and accept what beersmith gives me as extra IBU, I think around the 10% mark. I usually aim to only get 30% of my IBUs from FWH, the other 70% are from 90 minute additions or later.

 

[super_simian]

Well, now I'm really confused. Can anyone give me some coherent info on first wort hopping (ignoring mash hopping atm.)

The hops are in contact with the wort from the moment it hits the kettle (or the moment the bag is hoisted!) all the way to flame out - yes/no

THEN

The bitterness extracted from the first wort hops will be higher (by ~10%) than if they had been added at the beginning of the boil - yes/no

But will seem lower (or more "integrated") - yes/no

OR

The bitterness extracted from the first wort hops will be equivalent to a 20 minute boil - yes/no

And therefore the IBU should be calculated as a 20 minute addition and more bittering hops should be added at the beginning of the boil and calculated as normal - yes/no

 

[Mikedub]

doing my head in too
this where im at in my first attempt

Well, now I'm really confused. Can anyone give me some coherent info on first wort hopping (ignoring mash hopping atm.)

The hops are in contact with the wort from the moment it hits the kettle (or the moment the bag is hoisted!) all the way to flame out - yes/no

THEN

The bitterness extracted from the first wort hops will be higher (by ~10%) than if they had been added at the beginning of the boil - yes/no ?

But will seem lower (or more "integrated") - yes/no (appariently)

OR

The bitterness extracted from the first wort hops will be equivalent to a 20 minute boil - yes/no (appariently even though they are there from start of boil, which is what is confusing for me)

And therefore the IBU should be calculated as a 20 minute addition and more bittering hops should be added at the beginning of the boil and calculated as normal - yes/no (think so)

 

[Florian]

As in previous post, it depends on the boil time. if you boil for 90 minutes anyway, there is not much more bitterness you can get out of your hops, as there is no difference in IBUs if you boil 90 or 900 minutes.

Where as when you boil for 60 minutes, your hops have still potential to give of IBUs to your wort for 30 minutes until full potential is reached.

Therefore, if you FWH with a 60 minute boil, the hops may already start to isomerise at say (this is a guess) 85 degrees, therefore giving off bitterness all the way until your wort has reached approx. 101 degrees plus the bitterness given off during your 60 minute boil. So with a 60 minute boil I would assume that yor bitterness would be increased by more than 10%.

Then there is still the 'magic' of FWH giving off aroma etc., which I'm unable to explain, but take it as welcomed feature of FWH.

EDIT: Best to try out for yourself and work from there, plenty of people seem to have had plenty of different observations with FWH.

 

[super_simian]

Ok, the two replies have so far contradicted each other. So much for clarity. I'll try again - if I FWH and boil for 90min, is it calculated as a 90min bittering addition + 10% (but seeming lower due to 'integration'), or as a 20min bittering addition?

 

[big78sam]

Ok, the two replies have so far contradicted each other. So much for clarity. I'll try again - if I FWH and boil for 90min, is it calculated as a 90min bittering addition + 10% (but seeming lower due to 'integration'), or as a 20min bittering addition?

OK so I found this.

http://www.brewery.org/library/1stwort.html

It looks like I may have done the wrong thing by doubling my bittering additions but I'll be sure to report back here on my results, including recipe and process.

 

[Florian]

Ok, the two replies have so far contradicted each other. So much for clarity. I'll try again - if I FWH and boil for 90min, it is calculated as a 90min bittering addition + 10% (but seeming lower due to 'integration')!, or as a 20min bittering addition?

 

[super_simian]

Yeah, I think I'll have to answer my own question and split my next batch. A low-gravity PA with just on bittering addition; one half FWH'd and one with the usual bittering addition. The things we do for science, huh?