Hops Bulk Buy: Problem

[Hutch]

Some retailers before they were retailers...

Hmmmm,
There's a notable absense of commentry from certain retailers that usually prowl this forum.
...and I'm pretty sure that Brewcraft haven't even heard of the internet (or fresh hops for that matter), so that rules them out

 

[peas_and_corn]

I've only been here a little while but I've seen two hop related things that are fishy and paint a bad picture.

1 - Hop wholesaler makes a thread with great priced hops, then a week later the hops are double the price and it's all sort of not obvious and I guess they were hoping no one would notice.
2 - This bulk buy, which is much more obvious.

Okay I think a name and shame is in order. This practise is wrong and IMHO goes against the community nature of an online forum. Is there anything that can be done to stop this?

As said above I'm not interested in a bulk buy, I'd much rather buy in 90g quantities for the foreseeable future, but this practise has still left a bad taste in my mouth...

I doubt it will be possible to know definitively, really.

Hmmmm,
There's a notable absense of commentry from certain retailers that usually prowl this forum.
...and I'm pretty sure that Brewcraft haven't even heard of the internet (or fresh hops for that matter), so that rules them out

You seem to have ideas as to who it is...

 

[BoilerBoy]

Is it too late to change the AHB polo shirt order to -

AUSSIE HOME BREWER

NO BULK BUYS!

 

[staggalee]

Hmmmm,
There's a notable absense of commentry from certain retailers that usually prowl this forum.
...and I'm pretty sure that Brewcraft haven't even heard of the internet (or fresh hops for that matter), so that rules them out

We seem to be getting closer tho?
Intriguing isn`t it?

stagga.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

In many supply/marketing arenas there is a concept known as 'the channel'.

If you buy a piece of computer kit from Harris Technology or any of those sorts of places, you are buying it through 'the channel'. It is basically a distribution system that - rightly or wrongly - has a small number of big suppliers and a larger number of smaller suppliers. When you buy retail, you are paying the retail rate. If you went to Harris Technology and said "I want to buy 100 computers", they would give you a one-hundred computer price. If you went to any of their suppliers, they would tell you to go to Harris Technology (or some other retailer). The one-hundred computer price is not a wholesale price - it is a one-off deal price that sees everyone in the channel make some money.

It is called "protecting the channel" and guarantees that retailers can exist in one form or another. It seems to me that the Craftbrewer bulk-buy grain setup reflects this quite well. That there is no such arrangement for hops is sad, but suggests (to me) that the Hop Channel is more tightly controlled or that the sorts of quantities that an AHB Bulk Buy might result in is still not good enough for a bulk buy, or that at some point in the past AHB shat in that nest.

I like the concept of protecting the channel, because it means retailers get enough turn-over to survive, which might not happen if small-time end-users kept by-passing the channel by going to suppliers/distributers. I'm happy to buy my hops in kilogram lots from my LHBS, which gives me a good price and better again if I wait until they have a sale.

 

[jayse]

snipped>
....... has still left a bad taste in my mouth...

Your not meant to eat the hops

 

[Effect]

well - if it is because the 5kg purchase of hops is from AHB that is the problem...blind freddy can see who the culprit is...

 

[SJW]

SJW - so you buy you commercial beer by the single bottle and pay single bottle prices as opposed to a 6pack or slab price? no bulk buy of meat or other produce (like grain)?

Im all for supporting LHB but im also not going to throw money away just for the hell of it. I dont have a clue about bulk buy hop prices but im sure its more than a few cents (please correct me if im wrong). Grain its more than a few cents.

In case im misinterpreting, do you have a problem if its a bulk buy if its through a LHBS or site supporter or only if its through a big retailer/supplier?

I dont buy commercial beer. Theres a big diff. between "throwing" money away and spending 20 or 30c more per kg to support your local. I must be different to you in as much as I dont feel comfortable in doing a bulk buy or being in one then turning up at Marks to get him to fit an element into a keg for me or weld a socket in or even spend an hour or so talking about brewing and not even spending any money.
And grain is not a few cents. You can buy B & B Ale malt by the kg for $2.50 per in Newcastle so dont bang on about grain prices. Even with that I personally prefer to pay $75 for a 25kg bag of Weyermann Premium Pilsner malt.
Just dont go crying on this web site if your local HBS goes down the shitter.
And just another thing, I bought a Wyeast 3522 for $8 from my local today.

Steve

 

[peas_and_corn]

well - if it is because the 5kg purchase of hops is from AHB that is the problem...blind freddy can see who the culprit is...

If it is so obvious, please go ahead and say it

 

[bigfridge]

... the sorts of quantities that an AHB Bulk Buy might result in is still not good enough for a bulk buy, or that at some point in the past AHB shat in that nest.

I can only comment on what I know and it seems that SpillsMostOfIt has hit the nail on the head on both counts.

- 5Kg of hops is a retail order. 50 or 100 kg is getting closer to wholesale quantities. 5kg is just the package size.

- Posting a wholesale pricelist in a public forum is poor form. It makes life difficult for every retailer as suddenly they have to argue complex pricing decisions to those who don't understand such things.

A further factor is that the hop shortage is real and still with us. This means that stocks do fluctuate so having 100kg of cascade on the shelf one day can go in the next order. Remember that this is a wholesaler - not a retailler selling in dribs and drabs. I usually buy 100ks of hops in an order so perhaps I boughtthe ones you were looking for

$20 per kilo may seem cheap but unless you consider the thousands of dollars per year spent of buying and running fridges for storage, registered and certified scales to weigh them out, vacuum packing machines plus wages, rent and accountant's fees. It probably costs $5,000 per week to keep the doors of a HB shop open and each product occupying shelf or fridge space has to 'pay its way'.

In my experience all retaillers are wiling to share the 'economies of scale' that a bulk buy brings and will pass the products onto brewers at close to their cost price. But this cost has to include all the costs not just the purchase price from the wholesaler.

There is a lot of difference doing things as a business or as a hobby.

HTH,
David

 

[Peteoz77]

I can only comment on what I know and it seems that SpillsMostOfIt has hit the nail on the head on both counts.

- 5Kg of hops is a retail order. 50 or 100 kg is getting closer to wholesale quantities. 5kg is just the package size.

- Posting a wholesale pricelist in a public forum is poor form. It makes life difficult for every retailer as suddenly they have to argue complex pricing decisions to those who don't understand such things.

A further factor is that the hop shortage is real and still with us. This means that stocks do fluctuate so having 100kg of cascade on the shelf one day can go in the next order. Remember that this is a wholesaler - not a retailler selling in dribs and drabs. I usually buy 100ks of hops in an order so perhaps I boughtthe ones you were looking for

$20 per kilo may seem cheap but unless you consider the thousands of dollars per year spent of buying and running fridges for storage, registered and certified scales to weigh them out, vacuum packing machines plus wages, rent and accountant's fees. It probably costs $5,000 per week to keep the doors of a HB shop open and each product occupying shelf or fridge space has to 'pay its way'.

In my experience all retaillers are wiling to share the 'economies of scale' that a bulk buy brings and will pass the products onto brewers at close to their cost price. But this cost has to include all the costs not just the purchase price from the wholesaler.

There is a lot of difference doing things as a business or as a hobby.

HTH,
David

+1

Well Said.

I used to manage an Apple Computer Reseller store. I had a few clients come in and ask for 'Cash Prices". I even had one client demand 10% off for cash. The gear that i was selling had an 8% profit margin, and I explained this to the customer. They were more than happy for me to LOSE money on their sale, so they could save 10%... It didn't happen.

 

[clean brewer]

Nice prices back in 2005 for private buyers too

Very Nice.. :icon_cheers:

I put an order in for 500grams, its not happening, who gives a shit? My life wasnt depending on it, I was just buying because it was $20 cheaper than retail..

God, Im becoming my mother, buying stuff for the hell of it because its cheap... h34r:

 

[clean brewer]

I agree with Bigfridge..

Restaurants are the same, people just dont understand the costs involved other than just the cost of the product...

Wages and Rents are the big killers in Business today(and lack of customers), we operate a Small All Natural Marine Aquarium alongside the Restaurant and people still come in and are disgusted when they have to pay an Entry Fee.. F.F.S :angry:

What about,

• Rent
• Rates
• Workcover Insurance
• Loan Repayments
• Wages
• Electricity/Gas
• Equipment
• Public Liability Insurance
• G.S.T
• Tax
• Supplies

This is all stuff that has to be tacked onto that "apparent" wholesale price we pay for things and then try and put a small profit on it aswell.. Very Hard..

As someone once said, unless you have yourself run your own business(not someone elses), you have no idea...

 

[Batz]

Guys it's all over you won't buy bulk hops off the wholesalers who sell hops to the retailers.

Now think about that last statement.



And bulk buys for certain things can no longer be posted here,do what you will but keep it to yourself.Then people who do not like bulk buys don't have to get all hot headed about it.Those who do can quietly go about it with a few mates,more than this freight kills it anyway.
I know I've been fueling this debate myself perhaps,but that's because I've been shit on,and pissed off about it on several occasions.

This will all come up 6 months from now when someone contacts Hopco etc,and again 6 months after that.

Been way too hot today hey?

Batz

 

[Batz]

I agree with Bigfridge..

Restaurants are the same, people just dont understand the costs involved other than just the cost of the product...

Wages and Rents are the big killers in Business today(and lack of customers), we operate a Small All Natural Marine Aquarium alongside the Restaurant and people still come in and are disgusted when they have to pay an Entry Fee.. F.F.S :angry:

What about,

• Rent
• Rates
• Workcover Insurance
• Loan Repayments
• Wages
• Electricity/Gas
• Equipment
• Public Liability Insurance
• G.S.T
• Tax
• Supplies

This is all stuff that has to be tacked onto that "apparent" wholesale price we pay for things and then try and put a small profit on it aswell.. Very Hard..

As someone once said, unless you have yourself run your own business(not someone elses), you have no idea...

So is it wrong to buy something and go home and cook it? Save a few bucks?
Not everyone here can go to Restaurants for a meal or brew as they do by supporting their LHBS

Bugger you started me again !!! :angry:

Batz

 

[WarmBeer]

So, does anybody in the know have the cojones to name who is behind this cartel behaviour?

Part of the implicit agreement of retailers is that competition breeds lower prices for consumers. Collusion between retailers in order to maintain profit margins, rather than optimising costs, could be seen by some observers as mono/duo-polistic.

Sorry, never studied commerce, just venting

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

So, does anybody in the know have the cojones to name who is behind this cartel behaviour?

Have you been watching Underbelly h34r:

What he said



B.S.

Batz

:lol: :lol: Ditto

BYB

 

[Effect]

I think we are getting a little bit off track...

they guy was going to sell him 5 kg of hops - but refused to sell it too him solely because he was from AHB...

 

[Batz]

I think we are getting a little bit off track...

they guy was going to sell him 5 kg of hops - but refused to sell it too him solely because he was from AHB...

Phillip owe you a beer!

Back on track

What he said

Ditto :lol: :lol:

Batz :lol: :lol:

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

I think we are getting a little bit off track...

they guy was going to sell him 5 kg of hops - but refused to sell it too him solely because he was from AHB...

You don't become a brewer and not learn how to side step a few landmines. I have wife and kids for my practice. From experince if I had 5kg of whatever I would try and not splurt it out on this or any forum. Take some advice and tip toe around quietly h34r:

BYB