Hoppy beers

[ajmuzza]

I like hoppy beers. I've been chasing big hop aroma akin to my commercially brewed favs. I no chill and have used the French press and Argon methods a couple of times and dry hop the crap out of my brews and I just can't get anywhere near what I'm looking for. Basically no aroma at all really.

simple solution (I hope) is to chill. So I'm going to get a 50' immersion chiller.

Couple of questions.

How do you whirlpool with an immersion chiller?
What's the deal with whirlpool hopping and chilling?
How long would it take to get to pitching temp?

Any words of advice from those with immersion chillers?

 

[rehab]

I have chilled and believe it comes out a lot cleaner than the time I slow chilled (a bitter mess). I also think that you should chuck a bunch of hops at 0 minutes. I am moving away from Big dry hops as I bottle and don't get much apart from grassiness after time. I did a Wookey Jack clone a while back and things went so wrong during the mash I thought it was unrecoverable and I was going to pour it.
Thing is I had smoked it with a big 0 minute addition during the boil and it was HUGE. No dry hop needed and it didn't have a nasty astringent taste to it.

This is all my experience though and others will ask about water etc etc. I think you can do it before you touch the salts and then when you do it will make it better again.

Chur

 

[Judanero]

-I whirlpool after I've taken the chiller out (And hopsock)

-Can't really comment as the last hops I add are usually at flameout and dry hopping

-Depends on: The volume of wort you're chilling(more will take longer), the temp of the water flowing through chiller(colder=quicker chilling.. is a pre chiller being used?), room/outdoor temp.
For me it generally takes about an hour for ~25L without pre chiller, but I hook up the chiller 'out' to a sprinkler so the garden gets a good soaking

I only really chill for my hoppy beers, and I recently even bought a hop rocket but it's not yet incorporated into my system *sigh*

 

[ajmuzza]

Bought some calcium sulphate the other days but haven't used it yet. Not sure on how much to use. In any event, I doubt it would fix things. Even with 0 minute additions in an argon mini boil I'm still not getting any fresh aromatic hope flavour when compared to commercial beers.

 

[Yob]

What amounts are you dry hopping with? I exclusively no chill and even without dry hops I get plenty of aroma...

Kegs though...

 

[ajmuzza]

I use kegs too and have dry hopped in primary and kegs. Generally dry hop at 3G/l for 3 days in a hop bag.

 

[Crusty]

Bought some calcium sulphate the other days but haven't used it yet. Not sure on how much to use. In any event, I doubt it would fix things. Even with 0 minute additions in an argon mini boil I'm still not getting any fresh aromatic hope flavour when compared to commercial beers.

I've been playing around with brewing salt additions lately & I can't believe how much of a difference it can make to your finished beer.
Download EZ Water Calc Metric & enter in your strike water, plug in your recipe & see your estimated mash pH. You can then decide to manipulate the mash to get to your desired pH & focus on whether you are after a hop forward beer, balanced or malt driven. Check down the bottom & see if you are in the ball park for the recommended guidelines according to Mr P.
You will need to contact your local council & get a PDF of your actual water supply & punch those figures in first.
Before doing this myself, I was brewing away with a pretty high mash pH knowing it & making some decent beers but since playing around with the salt additions, my beers have definitly improved.

 

[Yob]

If you're getting no aroma with 3g/l there must be more at play.

3g/l should rip your face off

 

[Crusty]

If you're getting no aroma with 3g/l there must be more at play.

3g/l should rip your face off

I agree.
1g/l is all I use & that's enough for me.

 

[MCHammo]

Silly question... Are the hops you're using relatively aromatic? And are they relatively fresh?

 

[boonchu]

When I chill I use an immersion chiller hooked up to a bilge pump sitting in an esky with water and 3 bags of ice, brings 25L down to 27*c in 30 minutes. The coil sits in the ice and runs to pre chill it and gets a sanitiser bath before hitting the boiler.
Then whirlpool after its finished.

 

[boonchu]

Also look to dry hop after the first 3 -4 days as large amounts of c02 can strip aroma from your beer.

 

[wbosher]

I've been playing around with brewing salt additions lately & I can't believe how much of a difference it can make to your finished beer.
Download EZ Water Calc Metric & enter in your strike water, plug in your recipe & see your estimated mash pH. You can then decide to manipulate the mash to get to your desired pH & focus on whether you are after a hop forward beer, balanced or malt driven. Check down the bottom & see if you are in the ball park for the recommended guidelines according to Mr P.
You will need to contact your local council & get a PDF of your actual water supply & punch those figures in first.
Before doing this myself, I was brewing away with a pretty high mash pH knowing it & making some decent beers but since playing around with the salt additions, my beers have definitly improved.

Sorry if this seems like a silly question but if I were to contact the council enquiring about the local water supply, what information specifically am I after?

For the OP, I generally find it takes about 10 - 15 minutes to cool about 25l of wort to pitching temperature with my immersion chiller. This is if I give it a stir every couple of minutes. If I just let if sit there, it takes much longer. I will normally do this a couple of minutes after adding the flameout hops. Once at pitching temp, remove chiller, whirlpool and let sit for about 20 minutes before syphoning to fermenter. That's my approach anyway.

 

[ajmuzza]

I agree.
1g/l is all I use & that's enough for me.

Yeah that's would I would have thought as well. I'm truly getting nothing from the dry hop. I've been using cascade, citra, simcoe into both the primary after fermentation has stopped or into the keg. I read about everyone have these fruit salad beers. I can't get any where near it. The hops are sealed pack fresh and smell pungent as out of the bag. Maybe one last crack with a massive cube hop?

 

[Yob]

My last 4 cubes have been done this way, can't comment on effect as they've not been fermented yet. With only a small kettle addition losses to kettle are minimal through so at the least I like that about the method.

 

[Crusty]

Sorry if this seems like a silly question but if I were to contact the council enquiring about the local water supply, what information specifically am I after?

You just need to ask them for an analysis of your drinking water. They sent me a 5 page PDF.
They may not have it publicly available on their website but will send you a copy if you request it.


The mean column is the average so that's what I use.

Put the required fields into Ez water calc as below.


Plug in your recipe & see what pH you are getting & play around with your salt additions to get the desired pH as well as keeping everything inline with the recommended levels according to Palmer.
Adding around 1% ( 50g ) of Acidulated malt to the grain bill will bring your pH down.
Just tweak it so you focus on what you want to achieve. At the bottom of Palmers recommended levels, you will see by adding the salts, you can enhance bitterness, have it balanced or enhance maltiness.

 

[Dan Pratt]

+1 Crusty on the Water - if your chasing better hops quality, this is something that would help.

My experience with the Immersion Chiller and getting better hop aroma is that I moved the whirlpool hop to a steeping hop. I tried this for a while without dry hopping and I got a great level of aroma with High Alpha Acid Hops, 9%AA or higher ( you can use lower but you need alot more, alot more)

Steeping would require that as soon as the boil finished, on went the immersion chiller ( a 50' copper coiled ) and I would chill the wort for about 1-2mins to get the temp to below 90c _ it rapidly drops in temp in the first few minutes. Stop the water flow when I get to 85c and then add my hops @ about 1.5g/L. You can either whirlpool them as they go in or just let them drop in, I like to give it a swirl, not really a consistent whirpool.

Let this rest for 15-20mins, then crank up the immersion chiller again and it will cool to below 30c in no time, I usually have to use about 200lts to get it below 25c but thats another story. :huh:

 

[wbosher]

Wow, thanks Crusty. Just Googled it and found detailed local chemical analysis online. Now just have to figure out what it all means.

 

[JDW81]

Yeast can also play a small-medium part. 1056 vs 1272 is a good example. 1272 tends to highlight hop flavour and aroma more than 1056.

JD

 

[piraterum]

Check out this article

http://beersmith.com/blog/2013/01/21/late-hop-additions-and-hop-oils-in-beer-brewing/


Bascially if you want to preseve hop oils and thus flavour and aroma you should chill your wort to below 64 deg before throwing your late additions in.