Hoppy beers

[mxd]

Plan is to do a APA to about 50IBU with half the IBU from a FWH and the rest from a cube hop. Maybe a single hop number given Yob's special prices. Also contemplating chucking the cube in some ice to try and get it to under 64 ASAP.

I have done FWH and mash hopping and haven't "felt" like I got a lot/different aroma from that.

I do a 0 min no chill, which is basically a 10 min hop addition to get to the IBU then add em at flameout, I also do about 3g / litre dry hop.

There was a AIPA that hoser did (centenial AIPA, no chill) that was amazing with the aroma, I've never been able to get my aroma that good.

 

[Pagey]

I'm not sold on the idea of pre-chilling the wort and then hopping in the 60's. Think about how most brewery's pump straight into a heat exchange at the end of the boil, this process is something only homebrewer's would come up with. It is an inelegant solution, and introduces another avenue for infection.

Agree entirely. I am absolutely a gheto brewer but damn it produces some nice results. I think that 50c mark is just enough to pull the oils off the hops and a rapid chill means very little is lost.

Totally agree with the infection part though. So far I've been lucky. Could also have something to do with my insistence on good healthy yeast that is active and ready to go being pitched at the perfect temps. Very particular with my yeast so that probably helps a lot.

 

[piraterum]

Agree entirely. I am absolutely a gheto brewer but damn it produces some nice results. I think that 50c mark is just enough to pull the oils off the hops and a rapid chill means very little is lost.

Totally agree with the infection part though. So far I've been lucky. Could also have something to do with my insistence on good healthy yeast that is active and ready to go being pitched at the perfect temps. Very particular with my yeast so that probably helps a lot.

The risk of infection by the addition of hops below 64 deg is a moot point.

The likelihood of this is being a problem is incredibly small, particularly given the natural antibiotic properties of hops. In a small time frame you're also going to add billions of yeast cells which will easily out compete any introduced bacteria.

 

[toncils]

Let this rest for 15-20mins, then crank up the immersion chiller again and it will cool to below 30c in no time, I usually have to use about 200lts to get it below 25c but thats another story. :huh:

Whoaly shiz...you don't put all that water down the drain?

 

[Dan Pratt]

Whoaly shiz...you don't put all that water down the drain?

It would be a guess to say 200lt, it may only be half of that quantity but if you feel any better about it that water goes onto the lawn

 

[popmedium]

Do you rack off your yeast before dry hopping? I'm noticed a tonne of aroma gets lost if you dry hop without racking the beer in to secondary first.


Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Home Brewer

 

[Yob]

Nope... can do but I feel thats just another process which is over rated. (Without good reason to do so but I dont believe dry hopping is one of those)

I have done, but only on beers that required it, like my AAAIPA where the trub/drbris level was starting to get over the tap level and I was worried about it blocking...

you shouldnt be losing that much aroma if you are DH near the end of the ferment, its not the yeast itself that scrubs it but the fermentation action.

 

[micblair]

Hops do have an anti-microbial effect, but not against beer spoilage bugs.


Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Home Brewer

 

[toncils]

I always wondered if you'd lose a whole lot of aroma when your hops sink into the trube?

Nyeh, all water stays on the earth. But 200lt per brew is a lot of cash on your bills. Could be worth finding a watertank to store/reuse?

 

[DJR]

Maybe get rid of the hop bag and just throw the pellets into the fermenter. Wouldn't do that with 3g/L though. And how long are the hops staying in? Also if your pH is wrong or there is not enough calcium I believe this can lead to poor hop extraction

also what yeast are you generally using and at what temp?

shouldn't be having a problem getting flavoursome/aroma filled beers with that kind of hopping schedule

Not sold on the > 64C thing.... although I do have a hoprocket and a borrowed plate chiller that really does create buckets of hop aroma from extracting the hop oils with hot wort and then rapid chilling

 

[hoppy2B]

I tend to agree with the point of view that hot wort is better at dissolving hop oils into solution. I have let wort cool to 90 degrees in order to reduce AA isomerization before adding hops and achieved good results.
Yeast strain is critical to the level of flavour retained. I don't really aim for aroma, but do seem to have good aroma when I crack a bottle. I don't know it that's due to the aroma being in the neck of the bottle or if I just become desensitized to aroma as I drink the beer.
An alternative to gypsum might be acidulated malt for those who wish to keep their beer more pure.

 

[toncils]

Anyone done any experiments into dry hop strength between primary and secondary?

In primary, I'd have thought the hops would sink into the trube and be useless.

 

[Kranky]

Anyone done any experiments into dry hop strength between primary and secondary?

In primary, I'd have thought the hops would sink into the trube and be useless.

The hop oils released during dry hoping are volatile. During primary the fermentation process blows off a lot of the hop oils so there's not a lot of point to it.

 

[Yob]

During early ferment some does get blown off, many wait until just a few points remain to do so...

Dry hopping rocks, I will also often dry hop at cold conditioning and/or keg for beers/styles that it suits

 

[toncils]

The trube though? Does it affect all this?

 

[Yob]

As long as its exposed to the beer, no probs, as they settle, they're still sitting on the top of the trub right?

 

[toncils]

Aha, that makes sense; the hops shouldn't sink into the trube.

I dry hopped my last batch, didn't think to check if they'd float. Delicious beer, though- 20g gram Northern Brewer dry in a 9lt batch (14 for 60, 4 for 20 and 5 for 5).

 

[Yob]

Flowers will float, pellets tend to break up and waft about before settling out.

 

[toncils]

I know this thread is moreso about aroma, but I've always wondered what the difference is between, say, 30g for 60 minutes VS 60g for 30 minutes, (or the IBU equivalent)? IE- if the bitterness stays the same, what's the taste difference?

That MR Malty link is sexcellent.

 

[Donske]

I know this thread is moreso about aroma, but I've always wondered what the difference is between, say, 30g for 60 minutes VS 60g for 30 minutes, (or the IBU equivalent)? IE- if the bitterness stays the same, what's the taste difference?

That MR Malty link is sexcellent.

I find bittering additions at 20 minutes quite nice, retains some flavour, it's what I have used for my last few MO/Cascade SMaSH beers.

 

[piraterum]

I know this thread is moreso about aroma, but I've always wondered what the difference is between, say, 30g for 60 minutes VS 60g for 30 minutes, (or the IBU equivalent)? IE- if the bitterness stays the same, what's the taste difference?

That MR Malty link is sexcellent.

Whilst the bitterness level is the same the flavour profile changes a lot depending on the time of the addition and the hop variety used.

The timing of additions also depends on the style being brewed. Some beers like a wheat beer or a Coopers Pale Ale style brew only have a 60min addition.

There's a correlation between boil time and the amount of bitterness and flavour imparted. Generally a 60min addition will extract maximum bitterness but impart little hop flavour. A 30min addition will extract about half the bitterness of a 60min addition but will impart a little more hop flavour. There's a general consensus late hop additions, ie the last 20mins to whirlpool additions, impart the most hop flavour.

This had lead to ideas such as 10 mins IPA's where all the hops are added in the last 10mins of the boil to achieve the same IBU level as a traditional hopping schedule. The practice of only using late addition is called ‘hop bursting’. Hop selection is important in particular using aromatic varieties like Cascade, Amarillo, Tomahawk, Simcoe, Chinook, and Centennial.

There is an increasing school of thought late hop additions create a smoother bitterness than a 60min addition. Having said that the bitterness, perceived or otherwise, seems to be different between a 60min addition and a late addition.

I know Scotty from Rocks Brewing is a big fan of strictly using a 60min addition and a whirlpool addition. I’ve started trying this too with good results. There bitterness level is relatively similar to a traditional hopping schedule but the hop flavour is much more prominent.

 

[toncils]

Aroma aside, it's a more gravelly or undefined bitterness in longer boils?

How would it taste if you, say, boiled for 120 minutes but still achieve the same ibu? (disregard the malt flavours, I know that would taste hugely different)?

I plan to start trying late hopping. Never been into bitter flavours, so it would be nice to smooth them out.

 

[piraterum]

Aroma aside, it's a more gravelly or undefined bitterness in longer boils?

How would it taste if you, say, boiled for 120 minutes but still achieve the same ibu? (disregard the malt flavours, I know that would taste hugely different)?

I plan to start trying late hopping. Never been into bitter flavours, so it would be nice to smooth them out.

There is a general consensus a 60min boil extracts the maximum bitterness from hops. After this point it tapers off and there is no benefit in a longer boil. So bascially 60mins is the longest boil you'd do, there is no point boiling the wort beyond this.

Using all late additions doesn't seem to impart the same level of bitterness as a a 60min addition to provide an underlying bitterness in conjunction with late hopping. So to get a right balance of bitterness try a 60min addition to achieve a 1/3 of your IBU target and using late hopping to provide the remaining 2/3's of the IBUs.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Some hop utilization times in the boil

5mins.......8%
10mins.....12%
20min...... 16%
30min.......24%
40min.......26%
60min.......35%
80min.......37%
100min.....40%
120min.....42%