Hop Stabilisation

[UsernameTaken]

I amped up the hops in my recent IPA by doubling my late additions from 120g to 240g and after 5 days in the keg I thought I'd gone too far as it was so hoppy!

This remained pretty stable for the next 2 weeks and I then went away for 3 weeks.

On my return the beer had now been in the keg 5 weeks and the hops had mellowed significantly. No complaints as the beer was great now, but it has me wondering at what point does the hop flavour stabilise?

I do realise it slowly falls away over time and everyone says hoppy beer is best drunk fresh!

But I have never tasted such radical variation in any store bought hoppy beers and surely their package dates have varied by months rather than weeks?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[MHB]

Its actually a very interesting question, I don't think there is going to be a right answer because all the possible answers are going to be subjective.
From experience 'the younger the better" somewhere around 2 weeks in package and there is a sudden change and that progresses to about 6 weeks where the rate of change slows dramatically.
Bit like Hefeweizen, the banana drops of rapidly, then stabilises after around the 6 week mark.
Two styles that I think you should make in small batches so you can clean (or suck it down) it up when its at its peak.
Mark

 

[technobabble66]

Also theory suggests it's very dependant on the level of Oxygen exposure the beer has (during the packaging phase).
I believe some of the US brewers known for their super-hoppy beers go to great lengths to minimise O2 exposure during the post-dry-hopping stages.

So it might be that after 2-4 weeks, any introduced O2 has been consumed and the resulting chemistry has largely run its course in diminishing hoppiness, and it seems to stabilise from there on.

 

[UsernameTaken]

So it's happened again. Big bright fruity hops days 3 to 7 in the keg and most of it gone by day 9!

Thats the hop flavour gone not the beer!

Does anyone else experience this?

 

[MHB]

Another very real possibility is that as the beer "Lagers" hop fractions are adhering to the haze flock and being carried to the bottom.
You could try cold conditioning the beer very cold (-1oC+/- 1oC) until it is crystal clear (lagering it) then dry hopping. Once it is clear you could rack it or just dry hop in the fermenter or even dry hop in the keg.
Mark

 

[UsernameTaken]

It's a pale ale and I do cold crash in the fermenter at 3c for 7 days before kegging!

Would crashing colder and/or longer just leave me in the same place with the hop flavour gone?

Dry hopping in the keg could be the go!

 

[mtb]

Do you use gelatin?

 

[UsernameTaken]

I did not in this brew.

 

[mtb]

Just wanted to rule that out in case. Excessive gelatin use has ruined a fair few batches' hop aroma and necessitated a dry hop

 

[klangers]

When you keep it in the keg, is the keg refrigerated?

 

[UsernameTaken]

Yes, the beer goes from fermentation fridge at crash temp 3c to keg and into keg fridge also at 3c.

It may spend 20min at the most above 3c.

It seems like I am better off not touching it for 2 weeks and adjusting my recipe for that result?

But it is a shame when the beer is so good at 4 days!

 

[Rocker1986]

Can't say I've noticed a drop off in hop influence THAT quickly, although they do tend to diminish somewhat over time on tap. For this reason I always brew pale ales as the last batch in each block of three so that they go on tap quite fresh, and the hop influence in terms of flavor remains pretty constant until the keg blows dry. The aroma often is lessened by the time the keg is near empty compared to when it was first tapped, but the hop flavor itself generally sticks around to the last glass.

I don't really do anything special to them. After fermentation they are dropped to 0C for a week or so, during which time isinglass is added once the beer drops down, followed by a dose of Polyclar 2 days later, then left to sit a few days before being kegged cold. The keg is allowed to rise to room temp unless it goes on tap straight away, as I don't have another fridge for storing kegs (yet, it's on the cards). It can sit anywhere from a few days to a couple of weeks before being put into the keg fridge to be chilled and carbed and remains in there until empty of course.

 

[UsernameTaken]

So how soon after kegging are you tasting Rocker?

 

[Rocker1986]

It depends. Sometimes they get tapped a few days after kegging, sometimes they sit for 2 or 3 weeks first. I don't replace empty kegs one for one, I just put three full ones in at the same time and wait until the last of them is emptied before the next three go in. That's why the pale ales are the last of each block of three to be fermented and kegged, so they spend the shortest time in the keg before being tapped.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

So it's happened again. Big bright fruity hops days 3 to 7 in the keg and most of it gone by day 9!

Thats the hop flavour gone not the beer!

Does anyone else experience this?

Yeah I do. I'm a tight arse in a way with hops too but I don't believe so compared to commercial brewers?
The more you dry hop the more beer you lose as well as the shitload of hops.
I have to think the commercial craft brewers have technique mastered and try to maximize the ingredient character and think how to attempt it at home.
Honestly how big should a hop stand be to get very hoppy results after say a month conditioning?
I've gone to 7g/l with fresh home grown hops that suck up a lot of the beer then to be pleased with the hop aroma and blown away with the hoppyness flavour when its fairly fresh in the keg. Then after 2 weeks the aroma is nearly gone. The hop flavour is mellowed.
I surrender to taking notes and keep searching for the holy grail.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Added. I have draught to PET bottles to see the longer time and there is the stabalization. Kept refridgerated or room temps too.
One month cold conditioning on tap then bottled will do pretty well for overall flavour stabilization. Improvement with time too but the malts seem to overcome the hops in time YMMV.
Well may be differences between the cold kept and the warm kept bottles but they are all good to drink and take tasting notes if you could be ****** to. Flavour changes can be very interesting.
You do have to consider that all the commercial products can/will vary under varying conditions as well and maybe/probably, they take that into account.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Thanks Dan, at least now I know I'm not losing the plot!

I currently have my first NEIPA in the fermenter, so we will see if the cloudiness from the flaked oats keep the late hoppiness in suspension for longer as advertised?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

As advertised? I missed that. So Flaked oats help retain cloudiness that retains hop aroma? Is that the concept?
I'll have to try that. I know there is flavour in the cloudiness so its a valid thought. hmmm,

 

[UsernameTaken]

It's a theory I have heard. The oats and the dry hopping early in the fermentation, apparently?

 

[Rocker1986]

Maybe it's just a case of becoming accustomed to the flavor and aroma of a particular beer and becoming desensitised to it somewhat the more you drink it. I don't know if it applies with drinking beer, but I have experienced it with vaping - if I use the same flavor over and over for too long it becomes bland.