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My main concern with no-chill is how much of the plastics leach in to the wort, especially with it being at hot temperatures for so long. That was the first thing my wife asked when she saw me filling them! (Sorry, totally off-topic, but I guess this thread is wacky enough any way...)

None, at least not at any temp that wort reaches. And if you use food grade HDPE (as you should), the plasticiser that gives way at 130C is citric acid. Seriously, the research has been done, it's safe. Darren's issue was with the buildup of resistant bugs with repeated use of the cubes, specifically botulism.

I've never used a chiller when brewing at home. I'm still here and so is the $$ that I would have otherwise spent on copper, just to get back on topic ;)
 
I was actually aiming to be funny but left out the crucial emoticon.... far too hasty to press the submit button. :p

But now you used the word research.....

i would be keen to read the article that has been published in a peer reviewed journal that highlights this research. A link please Pomo?
 
I was actually aiming to be funny but left out the crucial emoticon.... far too hasty to press the submit button. :p

But now you used the word research.....

i would be keen to read the article that has been published in a peer reviewed journal that highlights this research. A link please Pomo?

I meant secondary research, and you know it. Don't be another anal Darren :p
 
Easy way to check.... Throw boiling water in your cube, swish it around, chuck it (to warm up the cube). Throw more boiling water in, leave it to cool, smell and taste the water.
 
I meant secondary research, and you know it. Don't be another anal Darren :p

Yeah, yeah, i know but i do dislike the use of the word research. I chill, you dont. Life goes on.

Easy way to check.... Throw boiling water in your cube, swish it around, chuck it (to warm up the cube). Throw more boiling water in, leave it to cool, smell and taste the water.

Take said water and put it thru a GC or HPLC.
 
Adamt: That's a good idea. I'm sanitising a new cube to test this out later. I'll give the cube it's normal cleaning routine, plus diluted peroxide solution at the end, then use filtered boiling water to fill. I'll keep some of the same boiled water in a sterilised mug to compare the flavour once it cools down.
 
sorry but the scientist forces me to make these comments....

Trev, if you are going to do that comparison, just for me, could you compare that water with a cup of water you have also boiled in the same kettle and let cool down. Just for me :D
 
I chill, you dont. Life goes on.

Cool cool, it's all cool. I have nothing against chilling wort or people who chill their wort. No-chillers have had to defend the practice since it began. If more people had your attitude, it would be better.

Anyway, what the hell is this discussion doing in this thread?
 
Of course. It wouldn't be accurate if I didn't :) The water will all be carbon filtered (Brita). I'll keep an un-boiled reference sample, the boiled/chilled sample, and the no-chill cube sample. I'll be boiling the water in a large cleaned/sanitised SS pot on the stove.
 
Of course. It wouldn't be accurate if I didn't :) The water will all be carbon filtered (Brita). I'll keep an un-boiled reference sample, the boiled/chilled sample, and the no-chill cube sample. I'll be boiling the water in a large cleaned/sanitised SS pot on the stove.

That should be the definitive result.
When are you doing it?

stagga.
 
As soon as possible, but I've got a lot of work to do here. Likely later today, and I'll start a new thread.
 
You should probably do a blind taste test to make sure, and you should eat some plain unsalted crackers in between cupping these samples to cleanse the palate too :p.
 
Noted. I won't do blind testing for myself, but will let the wife try them without labels on the samples.

What if the no-chill sample tastes different? Darren will assume I'm working for the retailers trying to sell Chillers! :rolleyes:
 
This thread i hope has pointed out why you SHOULDNT start AG brewing Damian. Put the $600 back in your wallet and go find a bunch of less obsessed people. You'll end up like us arguing over a point we arent sure who made, when it was made or why. :D

that said, we do make damn nice beer! :beerbang:
 
Ok guys... so I'm ready to see how fast I can drink beer from the cube now, I've punched a hole in the top so the beer flows in to me faster. Wait... what the hell were we testing?
 
In an effort to steer this back on topic, a mate and I did his first AG brew the other day. He reads here, but I dunno if he contributes (stick your head in if you're around, Ed). I dunno how much he spent on equipment, but it wasn't a lot by any stretch. Probably the most expensive bit was the 4m of silicone hose. He heated the liquor in a 14L pot that he already had, then mashed into that. We did temperature adjustments on the stove as needed (this is frowned upon because people think you can scorch the grist, but since we were stirring the whole time there's no way it scorched). We then did a decoction with about 4L of the mash - boiled it for about 10 min, then poured it back into the mash to hit mashout temp. Was a bit low, but high enough to stop most of the enzyme activity. We then used a saucepan to transfer the whole mash to the lauter tun he made up the day before - a plastic bucket with a slotted copper pickup/manifold siliconed into the outlet, and a metre or so of silicon tube. We used another couple of smaller saucepans to heat the sparge water - it was too hot, but again, who cares? We put some foil with holes punched in it on top of the grain bed to act as a return manifold to stop the sparge from drilling holes in the bed. We ran the first few litres into a saucepan, and recirced it through the top, at which point it started running crystal clear. We kept running out the bottom, and added sparge water with another saucepan to keep about 2cm of liquid on top of the grain bed - yep, we fly sparged and decocted first time at bat. We didn't have a tap on the outlet, we just pinched the hose with pegs to control the runoff rate. When we had the kettle up to 2in from the top, we stopped running. Boiled that for an hour with a single addition of saaz - it was a hefeweizen brew. Just before he added the hops I said "hang on, you'll get a boilover, let's get some cold water handy". He chucked it in anyway, and had that most sacred rite of passage - cleaning a few cups of wort off his stove and floor, to peals of laughter from all present. No further dramas in the boil, then we used the immersion chiller which he also made yesterday, using rainwater from his garden tap. Chilled down in about 20 mins, then we racked to the fermenter. Pitched a white labs hefeweizen, and 16 hours later he had 1cm krausen and bready aromas, at 24 hours he had 12cm krausen and bready, spicy fruit aromas, he's now up to 22cm of krausen and I think a permanent liquid yeast convert. Only real disappointment is the volume - about 12L. Next time we'll use one of my keg-like vessels for HLT and kettle on his BBQ wok burner, the lauter tun he made has more than enough volume to act as MLT for a full size brew. The hose is pretty small (3/8 if I'm not mistaken), but that can be upgraded or not as he sees fit.

The point of the story is you don't need to spend a fortune and get everything you need up front to start brewing magnificent all-grain beer. I've been planning and replanning for about 18 months to develop my AG rig, and he got it done in a weekend with, I think, less than $100. He can easily add bits to his setup to improve it, make it easier to control and use, but the barebones are there, and he's already making beer. I'm a do it once, do it right kinda guy, but the speed and success of this brew has me seriously regretting all that lost time when I could have been drinking the good stuff.
 
The "keg like vessels" make a significant difference - at about $130 for a comparable (aluminium) replacement and nearly double for stainless. It would seem that the most expensive part of a home brewery is actually the honesty required to buy your pots and not steal them instead.

No judgment from me though - my kettle looks suspiciously like a beer keg - of course it's a legit one :rolleyes: The guy I bought it off said he got it from a mate who got it from a scrapyard where the scrap guy said they were sold by an ex-brewery truck driver who said that the brewery let him have the dented ones (no holes in em mind you, still perfectly good) for free if he'd just take them away....... so obviously mines OK, but everyone elses ????
 
Thanks everyone Ive decided to go with...

Barley Crusher grain mill $225
80 litre ally pot $125
Italian Spiral Burner $95
Medium Pressure Fully Adjustable LPG Regulator $65
Tap with pick up $85
Biab Bag $5


All quality parts that should last a few years (fingers crossed on the ally pot). Im going to see if i can get away with no-chill straight into the fermenter at first. Unless someone has had a bad experiance doing this?
Next tax return ill look into a chiller and maybe converting my esky.
Biab is very appealing to me because it will shorten the brew day. At the end of a brewday i just want a beer not washing up. Im already over the moon with my K&K beer so im sure i wont be dissapointed.

Thanks to everyone again.
 
Personally...I would go the Mill Master for an extra $50.


But this is MY opinion....and I dont have to give reasons... B)
 
My bad the Barley Crusher was 20% off that price. Well im not sure how the 20% off at G&G works. Maybe ill give them a call.
 
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