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Absolute BS Darren. I'm a retailer & a 25kg sack of JW Trad malt from me costs $55.00 crushed or un-crushed. About time you stopped generalising about retailers I think, or perhaps you should harden the fk up, get a shop and see if YOU can do a better job of it........placing a bulk grain order every now and again and charging almost the same prices I do just for letting people collect it from your place doesn't give you much of a pulpit to preach from mate.............
 
Sure sounds like good economic sense to me :huh:

darren
C'mon Darrren,

We had a quiet understanding that we wouldn't give each other grief about O/T posts, but mate...this looks like you're vaunting your bulk-buy a fair bit. Over-selling is just vulgar, my friend. <_<

The truce is over :lol:

Les
 
I guess in a large online community full of great people and conversation, you're bound to end up with at least one prick.
 
Just make some wise purchases and DONT purchase the shiniest things you see first. Just about all AG brewers start out simple and gradually build up their rigs. There would not be many brewers who have never boiled a kettle a 3 ring burner supported by bricks on the garage floor..


And make sure you talk to those that support us..

You would be suprised at what a phone call or a PM will do to reduce your budget...


I am sure that Beerbelly can help you on your quest, along with craftbrewer, G&G, mashmaster..etc
 
I'll take a different tack -

I think the very first thing you should do is get a kegging system. I would say the best thing you can do for your beer is fermentation temp control, but you have that already, after that - I reckon a kegging system is prior to going AG on the list of priorities.

TB has a point. Once you have a kegging system you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner. Washing bottles isn't my idea of fun.
 
Hey there Damian,
Mate I'm in the process of putting together an AG system (almost finished) and I have done as you are doing now, crunching the figures.
If I did it all again, I would use kegs S/S. I'm not a big fan of Ally, but thats my opinion.
As for a mashtun, I got a 45L one from the US for $150au and its a cracker.
Again your burner is personal preference, but I would (still might) get a rock burner and you don't need a reg, but you will need to slap up a frame.
And as for the mill, well I wouldn't rush in and get a mill. Are they handy, Yes but do you need one to make beer NO. And mate there is always something else you want/need to buy. Get your system going and then get a mill.
PM me if you want any of the detail of my purchases.

Jay
 
I agree with the others in regards to leaving the grain crusher for now. A grain crusher is the least critical part of your setup because it is easy to purchase pre cracked grain from site sponsors or your LHBS.

Another place to save money would be the false bottom. I've got one and I love it, but with a limited budget I would start with a braided line. You can always upgrade to the beerbelly falsie down the line.

I would also go No Chill. If your LHBS sell fresh wort kits, they may sell you the NC Cubes that get returned. They only get $2 for the cubes so they may sell them to you for the same price. Of course you need to give them a good clean before use, but they should be okay.

Therefore I would buy-
2 * 80l pots =$250
1 braided hose/bulkhead/ball valve for mash tun = No more than $50
Burner from MHB (www.ubrew.com.au) that Les mentioned = $85
2 used NC Cubes = $4

That leaves $211 to get ball valves for your ally pots and some silicon hose. You'll probably even end up with enough money to buy ingredients for your first brew!
 
Absolute BS Darren. I'm a retailer & a 25kg sack of JW Trad malt from me costs $55.00 crushed or un-crushed. About time you stopped generalising about retailers I think, or perhaps you should harden the fk up, get a shop and see if YOU can do a better job of it........placing a bulk grain order every now and again and charging almost the same prices I do just for letting people collect it from your place doesn't give you much of a pulpit to preach from mate.............


Wayne, Wayne, your website lists Joe White Pale malt at $3.80/kg. Thats $96 for 25 kg, unless you are suggesting that a new brewer should purchase a crushed 25 kg sack??

I maintain as I did in my original post that buying a mill and malt in bulk is the best way to make savings to upgrade/buy new equipment.


cheers

Darren
 
Let's ignore the pitifully predictable ad hominem attack and consider what Darren proffers as his *cough* 'argument'.

You could pay $50 a bag for base grain. Let's assume that you're just going to brew with that; no specialties or flavour, etc. Let's also assume that you would otherwise buy your malt from whoever Darren is referring to.

Let's say that you brew once a month and use 6kg of that grain each brew. You're going to get four and a bit brews from a bag.

It is going to take you at least a year to recover the cost of even the cheapest grain mill (a bit less if you want to buy a Marga, but we don't need to invoke the grain mill sociopath here).

So, to advise someone who is yet to brew a single all-grain beer to buy a grain mill is not really helping them. I can't imagine a sober person doing so.
 
I don`t look in on this site that often, but when I do, poor old Darren always seems to be getting a tune up :(

How come?

stagga.
 
Now lets look at a more realistic scenario. A brewer buys a mill and a bag of malt. Then that brewer brews once a fortnight (as he/she is enthusiastic) with 6 kilos of grain each time. Within one month a full bag of malt is paid for (the next two beers are free ;) ).
This goes on for 12 months and then the keg system is virtually free (especially if scrounged for in trading post etc).

On top of this, the value of the mill has remains reasonably constant and could be sold at anytime if wanted.

Stagger, you would notice that it is always the same ones who like to make personal insults towards me. They are usually fairly closely associated with HB shops ;). Believe it or not I do get many PM's of support. Its also rare to get abuse from anyone who has actually met me

cheers

Darren


Let's ignore the pitifully predictable ad hominem attack and consider what Darren proffers as his *cough* 'argument'.

You could pay $50 a bag for base grain. Let's assume that you're just going to brew with that; no specialties or flavour, etc. Let's also assume that you would otherwise buy your malt from whoever Darren is referring to.

Let's say that you brew once a month and use 6kg of that grain each brew. You're going to get four and a bit brews from a bag.

It is going to take you at least a year to recover the cost of even the cheapest grain mill (a bit less if you want to buy a Marga, but we don't need to invoke the grain mill sociopath here).

So, to advise someone who is yet to brew a single all-grain beer to buy a grain mill is not really helping them. I can't imagine a sober person doing so.
 
Im gonna leave the kegging for now. I probably dont drink enough to justify leaving the big fridge out the back running 24/7. And i do enjoy hording cases around the house, its like lucky dip. I also have slave labour to help with cleaning and filling the bottles.
Regarding the mill, unfortunatly its already ordered. Anyway i like the idea of milling my own grain. I probably would of ended up going for a long drive before every brew to pick up fresh grain anyway.
Thanks again guys, your opinons are appreciated and extremly helpfull.
 
Im gonna leave the kegging for now. I probably dont drink enough to justify leaving the big fridge out the back running 24/7. And i do enjoy hording cases around the house, its like lucky dip. I also have slave labour to help with cleaning and filling the bottles.
Regarding the mill, unfortunatly its already ordered. Anyway i like the idea of milling my own grain. I probably would of ended up going for a long drive before every brew to pick up fresh grain anyway.
Thanks again guys, your opinons are appreciated and extremly helpfull.


Great to see you made your own mind up and did what was best for you.
 
Stagger, you would notice that it is always the same ones who like to make personal insults towards me. They are usually fairly closely associated with HB shops ;). Believe it or not I do get many PM's of support. Its also rare to get abuse from anyone who has actually met me

cheers

Darren


HOW the bloody did i get involved in this


STAGGER
 
Im gonna leave the kegging for now. I probably dont drink enough to justify leaving the big fridge out the back running 24/7. And i do enjoy hording cases around the house, its like lucky dip. I also have slave labour to help with cleaning and filling the bottles.
Regarding the mill, unfortunatly its already ordered. Anyway i like the idea of milling my own grain. I probably would of ended up going for a long drive before every brew to pick up fresh grain anyway.
Thanks again guys, your opinons are appreciated and extremly helpfull.

Damian, Bravo and well done. Its good to see you choose your own path and you may well get 6 months down the track and think differently about you purchase (and God I have a few times), but who gives a rats you already got your grain mill and now you can get into the bulk grain buys.
As far as asking for assistance/direction from the AHB group:-
Listen to everyone, weigh up the good/bad in all arguments/suggestions and then go your own road.
After all opinions are like ********, everybody has one.

Jay
 
Having just gone all grain (I'm currently doing my 3rd batch), I can already tell you I wish I had done things differently, or at least had the foresight to add some things at the start.

Not that the setup I have doesn't work, I'm already getting circa 80% efficiency - but there are some functional things that I wish I had known before that only come with brewing on your own setup.

For example, I mounted my thermometers over the tap when it faces away from the front of the brewstand.

I wish I had sight gauges, these can always be added though.

I wish I had a counterflow chiller instead of an immersion one. The good thing is I can convert it... (as he realises the boil has just finished and it is, as yet, not sanitised... LOL)

My boil pot needs to be 80 rather than 50...

Adding a mashmaster thermometer on the front of my esky after my second batch - that was the greatest thing I have ever done. You always know where the mash is at, and don't have to let the steam out to check!

The point of this rant, think about how everything will go together, and what is appropriate for you - then you can better spend your dollars... IMHO scales, decent thermometers, and a functional pot setup are the things you should focus on... As you identify a need for everything else (eg. moving from braid to a FB) you will see if it is needed for you.

Good luck with it all mate! I can tell you it sure beats K&K!
 
Wayne, Wayne, your website lists Joe White Pale malt at $3.80/kg. Thats $96 for 25 kg, unless you are suggesting that a new brewer should purchase a crushed 25 kg sack??


cheers

Darren

:icon_offtopic: Apologies for the OT everyone, I can't keep this in any longer...

Darren Darren Darren - you are a little drama queen aren't you....

You lose sight of all of the other things I (and other retailers) DO do (that you don't) - I do pre-sell whole sacks and crush to recipe order so the customer doesn't have to take the whole sack at once, and I also happily crush malt for people FREE regardless of if they bought it from me or not. I've crushed malt that people purchased from you. I've even bought excess grain from people who had no choice but to buy a whole sack from you, so clearly your very own bulk buys are a false economy to some.

There are other things that come into play with kg prices, like overheads etc, and also the other things people have access to because they pay a little bit more so they don't have to buy 25kg of grain at once or subsequently buy a mill that might get used once a fortnight.
I also give further discounts for people if they bring their own vessel to take the crushed malt away...
I stock a wider range of liquid yeasts than anyone else in SA, I also match or have lower malt prices / more malt variety in stock than any other HBS in SA, & quite frequently give free samples of products to customers to try, offer 'first time buy' discounts, do brew demos, and a whole sh*tload of other services and favours straight out of my own pocket.
The money to pay for all of this has to come from somewhere - most of it has come directly from me working my backside off for the last few years and not drawing a wage - the rest has come from customers who aren't as short sighted as you are and can see that there is actually merit in supporting the local shop instead of taking a little bit more out of the bottom line and making it not worth being in business (consequently making a whole range of other products less available to the consumer).

What do you do? Bulk buy some malt, slap some markup on it, and sell it to your peers via this forum. (Many of which have recently expressed an opinion to me that your bulk buys are hardly worth the effort of 100 forum posts & PM's and then driving to your place to collect the malt when you finally actually get it.) And you whinge whinge whinge about everyone else all the while.
Do you declare or pay tax on your profit? I strongly doubt it.
Are you any use to someone who wants just 5kg of malt without having to organise a split with people? No.
Do you provide ANY other service other than a few dollars off a bag of malt? (If even that sometimes) No.
Consequently, are your opinions really worth a tin of dog poo? No.
Are you a hyprocrite? Yes (unless you can demonstrate that your malt prices were pure supply cost, you are/were a retailer yourself)
Are the criticisms of your attitude and abuse towards others on this forum justified? HELL YES.

You're suprised to get criticism from people you know? I'm suprised you don't get more but I suspect that it's related to the number of people who bother to listen to you these days. I'm personally extremely offended by your continued blanket slander of retailers when you've been on selling grain at a profit for years & quite frankly, I'm suprised that no-one has sued you yet for the comments you've made - I am however not suprised at all that Cryer has decided to no longer sell you malt. Not one little bit. I would have too after some of the things you've said.

I've only once before on this forum decided to ignore posts from someone because of the rubbish they come out with. I used to see merit in some of the things you said sometimes, but I reckon you now drop squarely into the 'ignore' category.

Darren WHO?
 
Wayne,

Seems you have plenty of time to reply to someone who has posted that you are misrepresenting your prices but cannot even answer your customers emails. (see below). Bit of a nasty response there too.

Interesting that a couple of the guys who picked up the malt over the last week told me that BeerBelly gives discount if someone publicly says bad things about other HB shops/suppliers. This sort of attitude will get you by for a while Wayne but people will eventually work out you are full of crap, especially when your prices rise. I am sure David Cryer would be very supportive of your gentlemanly tactics.

cheers

Darren

QUOTE
JJ - having a bad day? Want to perhaps PM me with your email address so I can see if we've even received them before giving me a hard time on here? (especially seeing as I don't actually answer the emails myself anymore because I am too busy making the stuff )
Evidently PMs do not work either as I sent you one on Aug 23 2008, 08:50 AM. Anyway dont worry about it tax return spent on competition from the US.

JJ
 
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