Haze

[Chap]

Hi all,

So I've done a total of 3 BIAB brews now, and while I'm still dialling in my system I've got an issue I'm hoping I can get some help with.

In my last brew the wort came from the urn crystal clear, but I've just taken a sample to test gravity and it's pretty cloudy. My last 2 brews while tasting pretty good look like mud. I have no chilled all 3 batches overnight to get down to pitching temp.

From my little bit of research my guess is that it's chill haze. Can anyone shed some light on this? Is there any way to get rid of haze doing no chill without the use of gelatine/isinglass/biofine? I'm hoping to get some Christmas brews going for the family but would like to clear them up a bit for presentation.

Happy to provide recipes and any other info I have that might be helpful.

Cheers
Chap

 

[MHB]

Might be a good idea if you did post more information,
If it is chill haze it will disappear as the beer warms to about 8oC.
Apart from ingredients, longer more vigorous boils, getting good hot break separation, using something like BrewBright as a kettle fining that binds haze forming polyphenols... are the basic steps on the hot side.
On the cold side, if you rack the beer after fermentation, then keep it cold for a week or two (1 to -1oC) the haze will form and precipitate (called chill proofing) its part of the Lager making process (but not all of it). Make sure the beer doesn't warm up before you package it, leaving the sediment behind. Might be necessary to add some yeast along with your priming sugar if you are bottling, if kegging no worries.

Just check that it is "Chill Haze" before worrying about the above, Pour a glass of the cloudy beer and watch it as it warms.
There are other causes, if it isn't chill haze, let us know (with more info on ingredients/ process) good luck.
Mark

 

[mtb]

You shouldn't worry about hydrometer sample cloudiness during fermentation. If your finished brews are cloudy - how long are you chilling the kegs for? Or are you bottling?
I'm interested to know why you believe it to be chill haze as opposed to simply an unfined brew. If I don't use finings some of my kegs pour cloudy for a week or so while chilling before going clear.

 

[Lionman]

but I've just taken a sample to test gravity and it's pretty cloudy

Is this after/during fermentation or before?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Whirfloc tablet added 15minutes before end of boil helps a lot for clearing in cold conditioning. I've forgotten the whirfloc a couple of times and the beer never clears totally. Otherwise long cold conditioning (Lagering). It can take two weeks, maybe a little longer for some beers to get crystal clear.
Gelatin I'm still not that impressed that it clears beer faster so I rarely use it now. Its just lengthy lagering that gets me to crystal clear beer.
Chill haze is annoying. To see your beer crystal clear before chilling then it gets hazy when chilled and can take over a week to finally go away etc.

 

[Coodgee]

biofine clear tends to fix most haze issues. I highly recommend it.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

I don't mind cloudy beer, in fact it's quite nice thinking about all the nutritious goodies in there.

Having said that, usually if I bottle a few keepers from a cloudy keg and pull them out 6 months later for a taste - they are often very quite clear indeed.

 

[manticle]

Mark's post and mtb's sum it up.

Work out what it is and why before you try and treat it.

Hop haze, starch haze, yeast haze, protein haze (which includes chill haze).....

 

[Schikitar]

I have the opposite problem with my BIAB setup, I'm trying to get more haze into my beers, coming out too clear! I prefer that juicy/creamy looking glass of beer, like a real good golden XPA... mmmmmmmmm... thirsty now! Anyway, I've used whirfloc and found that does a pretty good job of cleaning beers up..

 

[Coodgee]

Mark's post and mtb's sum it up.

Work out what it is and why before you try and treat it.

Hop haze, starch haze, yeast haze, protein haze (which includes chill haze).....

I dunno man, it's pretty easy to have different sources of haze from recipe to recipe. I find it just easier to squirt 10-20ml of biofine clear into the keg when filling to pretty much guarantee a clear beer by the time it's carbed. no matter what the recipe. A big dry hop might require 30ml. It's just easy. and at the price that hoppy days is now selling it for 1 litre it's fairly economical.

I've never been a fan of hazy beer. It's probably to my detriment but I have a bit of an obsession with crystal clear beer. maybe there is a support group.

 

[Rocker1986]

I've never been a fan of overly hazy beer either although a small amount doesn't bother me. It is a good idea to work out what's causing it first though, so you can apply the right corrective measures.

Most of my batches had chill haze despite using brewbrite and crash chilling for a week or so and bottling cold. Now I'm kegging and use a combination of isinglass for dropping yeast and polyclar for removing polyphenols; these are added during the cold crash once the beer has chilled, isinglass first, polyclar a couple of days later, then kegged after another 3-4 days (lagers are slightly different due to the longer cold crash of 2 weeks), and my beers are always nice and clear.

Usually, even the first pour of a keg is clear, probably because they do spend time sitting before being carbed and tapped. Some are just about commercial level clear while others may have a slight hint of haze, but either way I'm much happier with their appearance now.

 

[Chap]

Thanks for your replies so far everyone, very much appreciated.

I am still in the fermentation stage of my current brew which should be finishing up in the next couple of days, however I would like to get some thoughts on my last 2 brews which were we're ridiculously hazed. I'd like to mention these were my first 2 BIAB/all grain after moving up from extracts, so please bear with my limited knowledge.

Thanks to the info provided, this isn't chill haze as when warmed up there's no change to the appearance.

Last brew I'm drinking now - Biab single infusion mash at 66 for 90 minutes, sparge for 10 min with 10L 70oC water, then 60 minute boil. 20g chinook 60 min, 30g cascade and 15 mosaic flameout, 30g mosaic and cascade at cube, 30g mosaic and cascade dry hop at day 4 of fermentation. Whirlpooled and left trub cone in my urn, I don't think much went into the cube. No chilled overnight in a cube and dumped contents into fermenter and pitched us-05 yeast at 18oC. Fermented in primary for 2 weeks, kegged and conditioned for another week, started drinking a week ago.

I've added a photo to show the haze.

I currently don't use any finings of any description, but will start to if it will help.

I currently keg, but am wanting to bottle a few cartons to take away for Christmas for the extended family to enjoy with me, so am trying to find a cure without keg additions to clear.

Happy to share any additional info if required and thanks again to the brains trust for your help!

 

[mtb]

Fermented in primary for 2 weeks, kegged and conditioned for another week

Does this mean you don't cold crash prior to transferring to keg? You definitely want to do that.
Finings are a good idea also, especially if you want to pull some pints 1wk from kegging. Cold crash and utilise a fining (I use gelatin but am VERY tempted to use biofine instead - I'll leave that choice up to you)

 

[good4whatAlesU]

how do you transfer the beer from the fermenter into the keg?

 

[Chap]

Just reading back and looks like I missed that [emoji51]. I do cold crash for 1 week at about 2oC before transferring to the keg.

When using finings, do they go to the keg or kettle? As mentioned I want to bottle some brews for Christmas so keg additions I will look into, but want to clear it up to bottle sooner rather than later.

 

[mtb]

Do you move the fermenter at all right before you transfer? I have a brewer friend who chills for a week before kegging.. but on kegging day he hauls it out of a fridge and dumps it onto the floor. Wonders why he gets plenty of sediment into the keg.

I fine in the keg because my kegmenters grab plenty of sediment. YMMV. As G4WAU has asked, your transfer method matters here too; you can CC all you like, but if you dump your entire fermenting vessels' contents into your keg anyway, CCing won't do squat.

 

[Chap]

I do move the fermenter about 2 metres gently to be able to transfer the keg. I transfer via hose from primary to the bottom of the keg and avoid splashing as much as possible. I normally have at least 4-5L of beer which doesn't fit in the keg which I'll bottle 6-10 stubbies of, leaving at least 1 L of beer before the slurry at the bottom.

 

[manticle]

Looks like particulate murk. Before shifting or transferring to keg, do you ever pour a sample from the chilled, condotioned beer to judge clarity?

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Do you let the temp come up a bit towards the end of fermentation? This will encourage the yeast to finish the job and clear things up up a bit.
After about two weeks controlled temp I let the fermenter sit at room temp for a day or so... Clears it up.

 

[Rocker1986]

I always pour 2-3 glasses from the fermenter before transferring to the keg to clear any muck around the tap area. Maybe you could bottle the excess before transferring the bulk of it to the keg.

Normally I raise the temp 3C after 3-4 days, and leave it up there until a few days after FG is reached, then drop down to 0C for the crash chilling.

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