Fully Automated Brewing System Design

[Bandito]

iPod for a cow is it ?

No comment. You will never guess! While I will make brewery related exploits freely available, my commercial exploits need to remain commercial - nothing to do with brewing though - more like automated robots that take over the world! Opps! I shouldnt have said that! I really should not have said that!

 

[Silo Ted]

While I will make brewery related exploits freely available, my commercial exploits need to remain commercial

Im not too sure many readers have taken your open licence ideas and plan to incorporate it into their own set ups. Its a shame this project sounds like its being abandoned. I was looking forward to seeing the worlds most expensive home brewery set up in action producing top quality beers. Personally I reckon you should be building a conventional brew system first then retrofitting it for automation once you are familiar with the practical aspects of the hobby.

 

[Silo Ted]

I just noticed that its now exactly seven months since your first post so the stated project completion time has now past. To quote the Grateful Dead "What A Long, Strange Trip Its Been"

 

[yardy]

Anti biab hey?

nah that would make me anti beer.

will you start a new thread for your fully automated BIAB system ?

Dave

 

[thelastspud]

Sorry Bradley, I am planning on taking out patents on the top secret device I alluded to, and have been advised by a patent attorney not to divolge information pertaining to said top secret device to anyone. Everything else is open source though. Especially this project .
[/quote


Yeah thats cool.

So I heard that when you go for a patent you have to pay a patent solicitor 10 grand just to go through all the old patents. To make sure that its truly a new invention. Any truth to that?

 

[Bandito]

Sorry Bradley, I am planning on taking out patents on the top secret device I alluded to, and have been advised by a patent attorney not to divolge information pertaining to said top secret device to anyone. Everything else is open source though. Especially this project .
[/quote

Yeah thats cool.

So I heard that when you go for a patent you have to pay a patent solicitor 10 grand just to go through all the old patents. To make sure that its truly a new invention. Any truth to that?


From my one meeting with a patent attorney, he said that it would cost between $2500 and $10000 to get the patent in australia - the actual figure is largly dependant on how long it takes to do the required searches. It was suggested to me that it would likely be on the cheaper end, but that I should allow for the higher end. Of course, I dont have a patent, and have only met with a patent attorney once - but I have actually met with one and am not just quoting something from the net.

One thing I have heard is that when one applies for a patent, one should be willing and able to solicit major companies straight away. While the initial cost (2.5 - 10K) may seem large, the cost of the worldwide patent is much greater, and without signing licencing agreements very soon after applying for a local patent, one is unlikely to have the funds to pay such fees - thus where a simple (albeit less than efficient) programming system like labview could make the difference between having to save up $100K for a worldwide patent as opposed to having some other company licence said concept which provides the capital (even if it requires 50+% of the future profits going to that company)

As a 'would be inventor' I do try to learn from the storeys of inventors that spend 20 years developing something in secret only to find in the 20th year when a patent is applied for, that it already exists.

I hope bigfridge isnt watching this h34r: or is that the other way round! As I mentioned I dont have a patent as yet! And my planned patents have nothing to do with brewing! My brewing stuff is entirely in the public domain. Anyone is free to manipulate and profit from my designs - good luck though! I dont know shit! let alone how to make good beer - thats what computers are for!? (joking on that last one!)

 

[Silo Ted]

My brewing stuff is entirely in the public domain. Anyone is free to manipulate and profit from my designs

From the feedback you have been receiving on this thread it appears unlikely that people will be rushing out to put your dreams into action. Even you appear to have throw in in the towel now that the seven months has drawn to a close, and you haven't even produced any beer with the parts you have bought. If you will excuse my cynicism, was this honestly ever for real or part of another agenda in seeking free consultations for your life's work? Im wondering how much of the actual equipment you have purchased is now coincidentally going into the patent pending soap-making robot that you have been planning all along.

Recalling some of the attachments you have posted, and comments you have made I remember some of the following

~A computer imaged sketch that forgot to add the kettle

~An old pantry stuffed with insulation batts and a few empty water barrells placed inside it

~Photo of a yeast starter that really just looks like a bottle of beer thats poured into a tupperware container

~A few big red valves and some miscellaneous electronics alongside a pail, saucepan, some tubing and your alien mask.

~A claim that a qualified electrician blew stuff up, so you would seek out a professors help to wire your electronics instead. Weird.

~An offer from another member to do your welding for free which you turned down. A five hour drive could save a lot of time, effort and money spend on a welder. A good deal for someone who said they don't have the gear or the expertise.

And now after all this, and that the seven month window closed on the very day you start saying you're thinking of chucking it in, and your next focus to be on an automated vegetable cooker for the elderly. I could make one of those now, by hooking a steamer up to a plugin timer. Vegetables already come precut at the supermarket. Was this a joke? I cant help but wonder if the brewery talk has been a joke. I tip my hat to you if you choose to continue and have a realistic planned outcome, then good on you mate. After all this time though nothing seems any closer to making beer than it was back on January 14th.

of the 26,000 views of this thread, and assuming each visit has been 5 minutes in duration, you owe the brewing community over 2000 collective hours of personal time.

For what it's worth if you are serious i think you should stick to it and give yourself a time extension for completion.

 

[bigfridge]

I hope bigfridge isnt watching this h34r: or is that the other way round!

I'm watching you Bandito .....

... watching that you don't mislead the simple, but good natured folk on this forum.

Mislead them with your big words and fancy diagrams ......

 

[bigfridge]

So this is what labview looks like: the window on the right is for the block diagram which is built from icons in the functions panel at the extreme right. The left window is the interface where user inputs and outputs are input and displayed. This is a version to simply turn a relay on and off programmed by my mate when I was having trouble getting it working. Need to sit down with a pen and paper and work out how to get to the next step.

Oh dear ..... does your mate know anything about Finate State Machines ? Because that is what you should be designing before worrrying about relays and buttons ....

Document the process to be controlled before designing the hardware to implement your design.

Back-to -front again .....

 

[katzke]

From the feedback you have been receiving on this thread it appears unlikely that people will be rushing out to put your dreams into action. Even you appear to have throw in in the towel now that the seven months has drawn to a close, and you haven't even produced any beer with the parts you have bought. If you will excuse my cynicism, was this honestly ever for real or part of another agenda in seeking free consultations for your life's work? Im wondering how much of the actual equipment you have purchased is now coincidentally going into the patent pending soap-making robot that you have been planning all along.

Recalling some of the attachments you have posted, and comments you have made I remember some of the following

Hey you forgot he was going to do 5 liter batches because he did not drink much and wanted different beers. That turned into 100 liter boils so he did not have to brew more then a few times a year.

He was also going to have multiple fermenters going for all those batches and the brewery was all going to fit in the space that a fridge uses. The fermenters were going in a second fridge.

What do you call Bull manure in Australia? Here in the USA we just call it what it is, and recognize those that produce it.

~A computer imaged sketch that forgot to add the kettle

~An old pantry stuffed with insulation batts and a few empty water barrells placed inside it

~Photo of a yeast starter that really just looks like a bottle of beer thats poured into a tupperware container

~A few big red valves and some miscellaneous electronics alongside a pail, saucepan, some tubing and your alien mask.

~A claim that a qualified electrician blew stuff up, so you would seek out a professors help to wire your electronics instead. Weird.

~An offer from another member to do your welding for free which you turned down. A five hour drive could save a lot of time, effort and money spend on a welder. A good deal for someone who said they don't have the gear or the expertise.

And now after all this, and that the seven month window closed on the very day you start saying you're thinking of chucking it in, and your next focus to be on an automated vegetable cooker for the elderly. I could make one of those now, by hooking a steamer up to a plugin timer. Vegetables already come precut at the supermarket. Was this a joke? I cant help but wonder if the brewery talk has been a joke. I tip my hat to you if you choose to continue and have a realistic planned outcome, then good on you mate. After all this time though nothing seems any closer to making beer than it was back on January 14th.

of the 26,000 views of this thread, and assuming each visit has been 5 minutes in duration, you owe the brewing community over 2000 collective hours of personal time.

For what it's worth if you are serious i think you should stick to it and give yourself a time extension for completion.

 

[ben_sa]

of the 26,000 views of this thread, and assuming each visit has been 5 minutes in duration, you owe the brewing community over 2000 collective hours of personal time.

If my boss knew how much time (time = money) I had spent reading this.... I reckon he'd come hunt you down Bandito.... J/K

The most productive thing that appears to have come out of this thread, Is Bandito's post count...... h34r:

EDIT: sidenote: I honestly hope this does all come together though.... Would be great to see it in action.....

(edited to make sure i didnt offend anyone.... Just havin a chuckle at work on this shitty 13.C sunday in adelaide)

 

[Bandito]

I will finnish this . My lifes work I mentioned has nothing to do with this - killer robots that take over the world! Automating my dads soap factory will be done for free as a gift. I doubt anyone will use anything I bodge up either. This is my main aim atm

 

[yardy]

I will finnish this

stop ******* around then mate, no more cows with headphones, soap or robots hell bent on world domination, I'd hate to be paying you by the hour Burrito.

 

[bigfridge]

I will finnish this . My lifes work I mentioned has nothing to do with this - killer robots that take over the world! Automating my dads soap factory will be done for free as a gift. I doubt anyone will use anything I bodge up either. This is my main aim atm

Can you please make sure that you let us know what Brand of soap your dad makes. This way we can ensur ethat we NEVER buy any by accident - I don't want to risk 'pure caustic' soap because your pinch valve didn't pinch enough.

 

[Zizzle]

Wow, thanks heaps to Zizzle and Kirem. I really do appreciate the feedback and advice. I have read your posts a few times, and am listening.

I will be hooking up the normally open pinch valves to the relay boards this weekend and dialing in the required activation voltage. And time permitting the grain and hops dispenser too. Will be the first time I actually use labview, so it will be fun.

I will be automating each component one by one on the couch, and slowly building up the labview schematic.

While I am listening and taking note, you have cought me 85% into the project, and am way beyond the point of no return. There is not much left to get, from here on its prety much hooking up 12V circuits. Do you really want me to abandon the project that on the current schedule will be assembled and ready for full scale testing in 42.5 days?

Such a big change in 10 days? Why give up now if there is only 15% left to do?

Seriously, just build an automated HLT already. Make some actual progress. If labview and PCs are chewing time and money, go and order a brewtroller like kirem recommends and forget about that part for now.

It should give you (and those if us still wondering) an idea of how capable you are of doing this stuff. And if you decide to go BIAB you can still use it.

As far a patents go, I think the dream that the lone little-guy inventor can make it big is a myth that hasn't been possible for decades. So many large corporations own so many patents on basic, obvious and trivial stuff, that your invention likely violates some patents.

How you plan on recouping costs on your patent? You haven't shown much ability to actually make anything with this brewery, so unlikely that you will move into building and selling your invention. Most companies that produce stuff have their own R&D departments and only license patents from other big guys (usually after they are sued). Hell, the Chinese don't give a damn about patents and will manufacture anything anyway. There are investment firms that buy patents and try to monetize them. But they buy at bargain basement prices, since they are taking all the risk. And finally there are patent trolls: just wait until someone starts making your invention or something similar and start suing (probably unlikely in your case, and big capital investment in lawyers needed). Of course the lawyer is not going to tell you this, he was want you to spend the money for you to file it via him.

So probably a waste of money.

My background is just working mainly in the software industry. I have a patent application with my name on it going through the US patent system by a previous employer. A bit of a blow to my Open Source street cred

 

[pablodubloon]

I am too far into following this thread for it to not reach any productive conclusion. Please get on with it Bandito. How ever will I recover my time spent reading this thread if there is no productive outcome. I had an idea that one day I would build a fully automated brewing system that would brew in 1 pint lots. This would allow me to tweek my recipes to no end in a really short time frame and I could sample at least four or ten brews in one sitting.

 

[yardy]

how's the welding progressing, fabbed that MLT yet ?

 

[schooey]

Bandicoot? :unsure:

 

[bum]

Perhaps he got sick of getting raped?

 

[jakub76]

Perhaps he got sick of getting raped?

I doubt it. I don't think he was ever into brewing, I think he was just lonely.