First BIAB All Grain Beer very Average

[Major Arcana]

G'day Fellas,

I have just tasted my first beer done by All Grain BIAB and to tell you the truth i was rather dissapointed, it was just a basic recipe of 4.5kg Marris Otter and a simple bittering additon of fuggles for bittering and a bit of aroma etc and then cubed. It tastes seriously like my first beers done by Kit and Kilo, i am not a hundred percent certain but i think it may have something to do with oxidisation and there is very little head on it as well, the other problem i thought was that when i cubed it there was a bit of head space still in the 20 litre cube.

Do you guys have any advice on this at all, feeling a bit disheartened by the whole attempt was looking forward to experiencing something awesome,that exceeded my all extract beers! Any info would be greatly appreciated.

cheers

Dan

 

[DU99]

Yeast variety...fermenting temp..when did you brew it

 

[Major Arcana]

Yeast variety...fermenting temp..when did you brew it

hey mate, the yeast was 2 packs of US05 rehydrated and fermenting temp would sit about 19degrees, i did pitch it a little high though by mistake probably at 25-26c but then it went straight into the chest freezer, it was left for 2 weeks and it has been bottled now for a week and a half. Definitely something wrong.

 

[panzerd18]

My first ale was horrible after bottle conditioning. I tipped half the batch down the drain because I couldn't finish it. Put it away and three months later the beer is beautiful, much smoother and rounder and most importantly less harsh.

 

[tomdavis]

it was left for 2 weeks and it has been bottled now for a week and a half.

very little head on it as well

Unless you have a process issue, or it got infected/oxidised in the fermenter then what panzerd said. More time needed.

Forget this batch, squirrel it away somewhere at 15-20c, brew something else to get your mind off it and go back later and try it again in a month or two.

Some people may disagree, but I have never had a beer get worse after a few weeks extra conditioning. Only better and more rounded.

3 weeks fermenter, 3 weeks bottle, minimum!

Can you describe what you feel is not right about it? Cardboardy, funky?

 

[Major Arcana]

cheers fellas, so do you think the technique was okay then? I am going to do just that and let them do their thing for another month.

cheers,

 

[tomdavis]

You may need to give us a little more detail in terms of your technique, but based on what your saying, then I would suggest before writing it off, give it more time.

You may be right in that it is sh*t, but unless you are reeling away in horror after swigging it, don't make that call just yet is what we're saying.

One of the best things you can do is have a good rotation going, so brew something, ferment it, then bottle it, put it away and forget about it for a month or two, then brew something else etc etc. Eventually you will get a good cycle going of regular brewing days, AND nicely conditioned beers.

 

[jonnir]

Put it away mate, i thought the same thing on my first AG. It tasted fantastic going into the fermenter. Smelled great in the fermenter and then it hit a point that it started smelling a little wierd. Thought oh shit i'm getting an infection. Rode it out and added to the keg. Tasted it after a few days and was a bit hows ya mother?

3 weeks later tasted it again and BOOOM, AG is the best!

Beer is a funny thing sometimes

 

[droid]

first one here was a disaster, chucked it out except for three stubbies - went back to it after a while and it was beautiful, wish I had kept it all

stay strong

 

[Major Arcana]

cheers for the info fellas! going to put it away, do you think having headspace still in a cube does much to the wort like oxidisation etc?

cheers

 

[bigmacthepunker]

Hey Major,
Give it some time. I did my first BIAB a few months ago. It was a Citra smash. Like yourself, I was disappointed also. It was a copy of a mate recipe. Then I did a side by side about a month later. Yeah my beer was close to my mates. Better than I had expected. I gave my last bottle as a token thank you gift for some free longnecks bottles. I received some very nice feedback. I think that we are always harder on our own beers. Give a mate some to try, and get their constructive criticism. I also found joining brew clubs, was a wonderful thing for knowledge and advice. Now I'm on my last keg of the C smash and it's a great beer two months down the track.
Cheers
Big G

PS: put the cube against a wall, open the lid put ya knee into to remove the air, then tighten the lid, when the air been displaced. Watch out it still will be very hot.

 

[tomdavis]

Probably best to avoid it if possible. How much headspace did you have?

It's normally good to get the hort wort in, and then squeeze the cube CAREFULLY until the liquid is up near the cap, expelling as much air as possible, then cap it tight and roll it on to it's side while the wort is hot enough to sanitise the headspace and cap cavity.

The cube will shrink up as the wort cools, but it should be fine.

If it starts to inflate... you will probably have a nice wild yeast fermentation going on which is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on who you talk to .

 

[Eagleburger]

the difference between my AG and kitnkilo is minimal. I think it shows that all your post mash techniques are good or at least consistent.

 

[Major Arcana]

thanks again for all the information fellas, definitely will be giving it some time to condition, i have done a Dr Smurtos golden ale that i bottled yesterday, hoping that will be a keeper!

cheers,

PS: one thing that i have noticed is that when i have sampled the wort from these 2 All grain recipes it is so much nicer and smoother then all extract. I am sure this would have been noticed by all you guys aswell yeah?

 

[marksy]

Add some spec malt as well. I made an IPA and its been in bottles for 2mnths and only now becoming great. It was a little flavour less before.

But like a few other have said, give us some more info on your process, from start to finish.

Remember you're making boutique beer now, it doesn't happen over night. O

 

[Major Arcana]

A bit more info, i use a 40L crown urn, i had 31Litres of water and mashed for 60mins at 66degrees then i turned the element back on for mashout until the temp got to 78 degrees. Removed the bag and brought to the boil added hops etc at dedicated times boil was for 60mins. Heat off and removed hop bag and whirlpooled and let it sit there for approx 20mins before i transfered into 20litre jerry can. As previously mentioned i fell short on my transfer wort so ended up with approx 17-18Litres in the cube. This cooled for a day, but i left it in the bathroom forgetting that it gets the afternoon sun so when i went to transfer to fermentor and pitch yeast i realised the wort was still at 26-27degrees.
I let it ferment in the chest freezer at 18degrees and rest for 2 weeks before it was bottled. and a week and a half later here we are. Hope this helps a little.

cheers

 

[hwall95]

If you have Amarillo and Centennial and a bit of citra you should try an easy cube APA. Use MO as base, 10-30% munich depending on your preference, a little bit of crystal and then mash at 67-68 to end up around 4.7-5%. 15-30 IBU with citra at 60min, and then 50g each of Amarillo and centennial in the cube. Ferment with American ale yeast, dry hop 3-4g/L combo of Amarillo and centennial once fermentation done and it should make a nice hoppy yet malty APA.

I made it for Christmas to share with the family and after kegged for two weeks it was really great. The maltiness really balanced the hops, and the slight sweetness to it made even my non-beer drinking sister like it

 

[Bribie G]

Hmm, plain base malt, a single addition of fuggles and US-05 would hardly make for an inspiring brew at the best of times. I've used that yeast a couple of times in a UK style bitter and it's been rather underwhelming.

I'd suggest for #2, add some crystal malt and use something a bit more complex as the hops, maybe some Fuggles again plus some Styrian Goldings. Then a more characterful yeast such as one of the Wyeast UK range, and see how you go.

If you are heading more for an APA style then up the malt to 5kg and use some American hops such as Cascade, Simcoe etc and the US-05 which is better suited to that style.

 

[tomdavis]

Hmm, well a couple of litres of headspace shouldn't cause you major issues, but next time if only for your own peace of mind, be sure to get rid of much of the air as you can before sealing.

Pitch temp was high as you say, but not too high to kill the yeasties. Can't see anything major here that would be a process problem, though.

Just a small thing, but are you removing the grain bag when you raise the temp to 78? If the urn is exposed element, it could be scorching the bottom of your grain bed, Maybe? :huh:

Anyway, if you want to try something similar with a bit more punch, maybe give this a whirl. It's a lovely clone recipe for an ESB called Proper Job from the St.Austell Brewery in Cornwall, UK (my neck the woods)

23L batch
OG: 1.055
FG: 1.013
EBU: 56
EBC: 11
ABV: 5.5%
Mash temp 64C
Mash time 90min (to guarantee full conversion), drain then 2 batch sparges at 10L each, temp of water 77C
Water:Grain ratio 2.6:1
Boil time 60min
Whirlpooled/stand for 30 min in boiler

Grain
5.5kg Maris Otter

Hops
10g Chinook - 60 mins
10g Willamette - 60 mins

13g Cascade - 30 mins
10g Chinook - 30 mins
10g Willamette - 30 mins

20g Cascade - Flameout
7g Chinook - Flameout
20 Willamette - Flameout


Yeast: WLP 002 with 300 billion cells

Other additions: Finings at 10min, and O2 at 1L/min for 1min

Run wort from boiler through hopback and plate chiller and into the fermenter aiming for 17C.

Fermentation: Pitch at 17C and hold for 2 days, let it rise to 19C for approx 4 days (I may rouse the yeast depending on how the gravity is doing), then up to 21C for 2 days (the FG should be achieved at this point). As long as all the Diacetyl has gone drop back down to 18C for another 5 days (could move to a secondary for this?). It will then get crash cooled for 2-3 days to get rid of most the yeast as I don’t use finnings, then into a keg and carbonate and then condition further at 10C for as long as it lasts

 

[brewermp]

How did you carb?