Element Question

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

The Village Idiot

Well-Known Member
Joined
13/11/11
Messages
720
Reaction score
128
Location
Pimpama
A question for the electrically minded out there. Can this element be run from a "normal" household power point? I thought 2.4kw was the max? Anyone using one?


Link
 

NickB

I haven't had a C**t all night, Drinkstable....
Joined
29/6/06
Messages
4,436
Reaction score
191
You would need a dedicated 15A GPO to run that. Do not try to use a standard GPO - you risk melting it. If you have the correct sized cable a sparky should be able to install a 15A GPO on the existing circuit, or run another specifically.
 

Steve0408

Active Member
Joined
28/5/13
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
Yeah I agree it needs a 15 amp plug but you also need a thermostat to keep it at temperature and a safety thermostat to cut it out should the first one fail. They fit a coloured ring by the terminals if it includes a thermal fuse this one doesn't and could be dangerous if not correctly controlled with a thermostat.
 

Beerbuoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
27/11/08
Messages
185
Reaction score
4
I have the same element in my herms running off a standard power point. Works fine for me. I checked out the wiring in the house to make sure it could handle the load first.
The wiring is more of a problem then having a 15amp GPO. The problem is - probably half the power points in your house are running off the same circuit so everything is fine until you have the brew rig running and the missus turns on the kettle in the kitchen. Don't rely on the circuit breaker tripping before things start to melt.

In most cases it can be done BUT if you have no idea when it comes to electrical stuff then don't do it.
 

emnpaul

Well-Known Member
Joined
20/3/11
Messages
208
Reaction score
10
Location
Lake Macquarie
Two differences between a 15A gpo and 10 gpo are the size of the earth pin and the ability of the switch to repeatedly break the circuit under load before it flogs out. You can run it off a 10A power point for quite a while, perhaps indefinitely, as per Beerbuoy's post, but the total load on that circuit at any given time then becomes an issue, particularly if it includes the kitchen where a kettle or toaster, even some newer microwaves may become the tipping point and cause the circuit breaker to trip.

In a nutshell you are much better off with a dedicated 15A circuit.
 

MartinOC

Insert something suitably witty here
Joined
10/1/10
Messages
2,716
Reaction score
1,436
Location
The Planet Gong
OK, perhaps someone could answer me this one:

I have a 16A circuit breaker on the garage circuit (the brewery), which is separate from everything else in the house.

I've been trying to nut-out whether I can theoretically run everything I need to:

2x 2400W elements (HLT & Herms H/X);
A March pump;
12V Brown pump
Stereo (essential to my brewing regime!).

I also have two fridges & a small freezer running on the same circuit, but plan on turning them off during the 2-3 hours that I'd be drawing max. current.

According to my calculations, the two 2400W elements alone draw 20A, yet I've run a test with two elements & the circuit breaker didn't trip as expected.

Am I missing something, or was I just lucky with my test? Perhaps my calc's are wrong?
 

Ducatiboy stu

Well-Known Member
Joined
2/4/05
Messages
14,269
Reaction score
3,832
Did you hit the test button on your cct breaker. This should be done regularly to stop the mecanism sticking.
 

Pokey

Well-Known Member
Joined
10/1/13
Messages
137
Reaction score
24
Location
Peakhurst
16 amps is the thermal rating on the breaker, it needs time to heat up before it will trip. It will trip instantly on a short circuit.
 

Ducatiboy stu

Well-Known Member
Joined
2/4/05
Messages
14,269
Reaction score
3,832
Also...depending on the type of breaker the trip current can be 2,3 or 5 times the breakers rated current. This allows for current surges caused by electric motors and fluro lights. So a 10amp breaker may not trip untill a continuos current of 20-30A is reached.

DO NOT RUN A COMBINATION OF APLLIANCES THAT DRAWS MORE CURRENT THAN THE BREAKER IS RATED FOR.
 

QldKev

Brew Dude
Joined
21/6/05
Messages
7,471
Reaction score
1,031
Location
Bundy
How long did you leave it running for? Allowing a standard C-curve you would get 1 minute running 20amp on a 16amp breaker.
 

Grainer

The pursuit of Utopia
Joined
13/3/13
Messages
1,987
Reaction score
550
NickB said:
You would need a dedicated 15A GPO to run that. Do not try to use a standard GPO - you risk melting it. If you have the correct sized cable a sparky should be able to install a 15A GPO on the existing circuit, or run another specifically.
Agree +1
 

MartinOC

Insert something suitably witty here
Joined
10/1/10
Messages
2,716
Reaction score
1,436
Location
The Planet Gong
Ducatiboy stu said:
Did you hit the test button on your cct breaker. This should be done regularly to stop the mecanism sticking.
The only test button is on the RCD for the entire house, which I checked first. The individual cct breakers have no test button.
QldKev said:
How long did you leave it running for? Allowing a standard C-curve you would get 1 minute running 20amp on a 16amp breaker.
In all honesty, probably only 1-2 minutes. Perhaps there's the flaw in my test?

From the above, it would seem prudent to run the HLT element from a separate house circuit via a 15A extension cord.
 

QldKev

Brew Dude
Joined
21/6/05
Messages
7,471
Reaction score
1,031
Location
Bundy
Yep, some circuit breakers have different curves, C is the standard household one. It will say C16 for a C curve 16amp, etc on the breaker to know what curve it is.

At the end of the day it's 16amp and you need more, so a decent heavy duty cord from the house will do the trip. I run my 3V via extension cords. Don't use the cheap 10amp ones for long runs with big loads. The extra heavy duty tradesman is a 15amp cable with 10amp plugs, and is great for this type of work.
 

MartinOC

Insert something suitably witty here
Joined
10/1/10
Messages
2,716
Reaction score
1,436
Location
The Planet Gong
QldKev said:
Yep, some circuit breakers have different curves, C is the standard household one. It will say C16 for a C curve 16amp, etc on the breaker to know what curve it is.

At the end of the day it's 16amp and you need more, so a decent heavy duty cord from the house will do the trip. I run my 3V via extension cords. Don't use the cheap 10amp ones for long runs with big loads. The extra heavy duty tradesman is a 15amp cable with 10amp plugs, and is great for this type of work.
Thanks Kev. Sage counsel.

The only mention of "C" I can see is on the cct breaker for the evap. cooling. All the others only say 16A "G", 32A "G" etc. Is there such a thing as a "G" curve?

I'll source a heavy duty extension cord for the HLT & run it from inside the house (probably no more than a 10m run max.).

If I'm planning on pulling this much current, would it be a good idea to get the two GPO's in the garage changed for 15A ones (I'm pretty sure they'd be standard 10A ones)?
 

QldKev

Brew Dude
Joined
21/6/05
Messages
7,471
Reaction score
1,031
Location
Bundy
Never heard of a G curve. To change over to 15amp GPOs your electrician would need to check the supply line to the sub board.
 

Camo1234

Well-Known Member
Joined
15/1/11
Messages
473
Reaction score
51
If you end up getting a sparkie in to upgrade your brewery power, work out what you need and then get more installed.

You'll definitely end up running more than you first planned!
 

Ducatiboy stu

Well-Known Member
Joined
2/4/05
Messages
14,269
Reaction score
3,832
I would run a 32A cct to a sub-mains board to the shed/brewery. That will cover just about everything you need to run
 

MartinOC

Insert something suitably witty here
Joined
10/1/10
Messages
2,716
Reaction score
1,436
Location
The Planet Gong
OK, thanks guys. 'Guess I've got some more thinking/planning to do...
 

Camo1234

Well-Known Member
Joined
15/1/11
Messages
473
Reaction score
51
Ducatiboy stu said:
I would run a 32A cct to a sub-mains board to the shed/brewery. That will cover just about everything you need to run
Yep, thats what I got installed as well... the 32A breaker has already paid off with upgrading to a 15A point for my BM.
 

Latest posts

Top