Electronic Hlt, Water Heater Kit I'm Putting Together

[Carbonator]

To help pay for my own setup and make up for lack of OT at work, I have sourced a good supplier of the required bits to make a a kit to sell to weld and wire to your SS water vessel to make a temp controlled heater.

The kit has a Solid State temperature controller to adjust the heat better than a thermostat. Elements are available in 1000, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2000, 2400 or bigger wattage.

You will need a to be able to weld or know a good welder of SS and the same goes for mounting the electronic bits and wiring to 240V.

I have sold a few on eBay, but will give site members a discount if they email me directly and not pay with PayPal (FeeBay and FeePal). It's still OK to use PayPal if you want protection, but the discount will not be as much.

If you like, email a land number, (I can call you for free on land lines only, gotta love Optus!)

 

[randyrob]

Hey Carbonator,

have you got a wiring diagram?

CHeers Rob.

 

[Carbonator]

have you got a wiring diagram?

Hey Rob,

It's a very simple wiring job, but recommended that it be done by someone accredited to do so. :icon_cheers:



On the controller;
Terminal 1 = To one of the element terminals
Terminal 2 = From 240 VAC active (Brown or Red, whichever)
Terminal 3 = To variable dial
Terminal 4 = To variable dial

Neutral to other element terminal (Blue or Black, whichever)

Don't forget the Earth to element and heating vessel!

 

[the_fuzz]

how much are we talking here?

 

[randyrob]

Hey Carbonator,

thanks for the wiring diagram, gotto love the cut and paste job!!

so i'm guesisng it's not an everyday ssr but one that is designed for a variable input?

Cheers Rob.

 

[Carbonator]

how much are we talking here?

One kiIt would be $200 Aus Post Express Post satchel, site members anywhere in Australia. (No PayPal)

I will do multiples and you will save $10 more on each extra up to a certain amount of kits, then I would need another satchel.

I know! It's starting to sound like I'm in the trade, but believe me this is one of the things I drempt of in my shed (I think it's called ADHD, Aspergers or Alcohol abuse or all three) !

 

[Carbonator]

so i'm guesisng it's not an everyday ssr but one that is designed for a variable input?

Mate, it's a very versatile controller. Not sure of the internals, but the changes you acheive are almost instant when at optimal operating temperature and the knob is turned either way. What I'm refering to is the noise an element makes in water, (like your kitchen kettle), you can hear the difference as soon as the knob is turned.

The controller will allow the element to get to a set temperature only, preventing the water being boiled away. If the water is at 80C and the knob is at 0, the element is simmering the water. As soon as you turn the knob to increase power, you can hear the element working harder as the temp differential is altered.

I think in the production of Bio Diesel, this would be a good thing.

 

[randyrob]

adjust the heat better than a thermostat.

Hey Carbonator,

pretend your dealing with a total pleb, ok don't pretend you are dealing with a pleb but how is this better than a thermostat?

Thanks Rob.

 

[pbrosnan]

View attachment 21386

To help pay for my own setup and make up for lack of OT at work, I have sourced a good supplier of the required bits to make a a kit to sell to weld and wire to your SS water vessel to make a temp controlled heater.

The kit has a Solid State temperature controller to adjust the heat better than a thermostat. Elements are available in 1000, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2000, 2400 or bigger wattage.

You will need a to be able to weld or know a good welder of SS and the same goes for mounting the electronic bits and wiring to 240V.

I have sold a few on eBay, but will give site members a discount if they email me directly and not pay with PayPal (FeeBay and FeePal). It's still OK to use PayPal if you want protection, but the discount will not be as much.

If you like, email a land number, (I can call you for free on land lines only, gotta love Optus!)

Can you do a 3600? If so is it still around the $200 mark?

 

[Cortez The Killer]

can one of those temp control thingies be put on a normal immersion heater to adjust temps?

or is there something better suited?

cheers

 

[mika]

Or you could go for this and this from the sponsors and have digital control with temp readout

 

[Carbonator]

Or you could go for this and this from the sponsors and have digital control with temp readout

Nice info there mika, but obviously "we are not in the same laboritory on this science experiment."

Those "climate control" units work on the thermostat system, cutting in and out with hysterisis differential and delays designed for air temp control. They are fine for egg incubators, fridges and air conditioning systems. They are fine for the back-yarder home brewer on a budget wanting a bling display!

Also, who wants a hand held imersion element welded into a steel liquid heating vessel?

The controller I have found described in this thread, connected to a permanent immersion element, is designed to enable precision control of liquid heating. It you want bling, then get a digital thermometer from eBay for $10.

 

[Carbonator]

pretend your dealing with a total pleb, ok don't pretend you are dealing with a pleb but how is this better than a thermostat?

In my opinion, it seems better to have a constant source of heat from an element that needs to have greater output than the minimum required to get your liquid to the set temp. This controller allows the operator to dial-in the maximum operating temp via the knob and keep it there with a constant heat source. With thermostatic controllers, there is a lot more temperature variation and delays during operation, especially in tiny liquid vessels. Wear and tear on mechanical components, like relays and contactors. Also a probe to wire in.

The only way I can fault this controller I have found is when the amount of liquid being heated is not being replaced in the event of evaporation or boiling, then it needs to be turned down every hour or so, but I'm sure some of the tech-heads out there could design a system to replace the variable resistor with a CPLD (I think thats them, Prog Logic Device)

I know, another drunken rant!

 

[Carbonator]

can one of those temp control thingies be put on a normal immersion heater to adjust temps?

or is there something better suited?

cheers

I'm not sure I know what "normal" is in that context. Like the one in my fish tank, I am under the impression an immersion heater you reffer to has a built in thermostat, but I don't know about the others out there.

This control module will work with any heating element within it's current rating.

I would suggest it is NOT suited to people wanting to heat water in a fermentor with a hand-held immersion element, but more suited to those building industrial type liquid heating equipment for HLT, Bio Diesel production or stills. It requires electrical skills to safely wire and mount the unit.

 

[Carbonator]

Can you do a 3600? If so is it still around the $200 mark?

I'm assuming that shouldn't be a problem, but I will need to contact the element supplier for price and penetration details, just send me an email with the request.

Operating an element of that wattage will require a heat sink on the control unit. A slab of alloy or the OEM fan cooled or non-fan cooled heat sink is available, but I'm not sure of the costs for that. I will inquire so I know.

I can get alloy off-cuts and for a 4400W aplication, a slab of alloy 16 X 250 X 150mm is doing the job fine!

 

[Carbonator]

Here is a rough idea of whatthe OEM heat sink looks like. Not sure if it is exact, but will get more info.

If you want to run over 2400W elements, I can get them too, at about $15 extra

 

[ausdb]

Hey Carbonator I think you are missing one really important point that the other guys were trying get you to explain better or highlight. The device you are using is not a temperature controller it is a power controller so for keeping the temperature of a HLT at the right setpoint it is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. How can you set it to maintain a constant temperature when it only has a dial that goes from 0-100% as there is no relationship to an actual temperature.

However as this device is a power controller it would be absolutely fantastic for controlling the power input of an element or urn that is being used as a kettle for boiling. As once the liquid is up to boiling point the amount of energy needed is reduced which with a normal thermostatically controlled urn is impossible to do. So on that side are you prepared to sell just the power controller device on its own as I already have a few urns that I use as boilers and this would work a treat. Can you also please tell us what the maximum current handling capacity is for the unit?

Cheers

 

[Carbonator]

How can you set it to maintain a constant temperature when it only has a dial that goes from 0-100% as there is no relationship to an actual temperature.

I must admit I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to HLT, but yes, large volume water vessels and erns I have had experience with. I thought adding a gauge would allow a user to monitor and set the required temp. I stand correct if that's the case.

So on that side are you prepared to sell just the power controller device on its own as I already have a few urns that I use as boilers and this would work a treat. Can you also please tell us what the maximum current handling capacity is for the unit?

Cheers

I can sell anyone the controller on it's own for sure. It is rated at 40 Amp. It needs the heat sink for anything drawing more than 10 Amps, say 2400W.

 

[porky]

I must admit I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to HLT,

Then you have no business trying to sell something you don't know much about.

I can sell anyone the controller on it's own for sure. It is rated at 40 Amp. It needs the heat sink for anything drawing more than 10 Amps, say 2400W.

And anyone can buy one of these at the local electrical supply shop.
I bit my tongue earlier today when I could see there was no way to know the temp with this thing.
But I could hold back no longer.

Sorry,
Bud

 

[randyrob]

so i'm guesisng it's not an everyday ssr but one that is designed for a variable input?

so to answer my own question (but guessing again!) could it actually be a SCR (silicon controlled rectifier)

A silicon controlled rectifier (SCR) is a solid state switching device which can provide fast, infinitely variable proportional control of electric power. Not only does this give maximum control of your heat process, but it can extend heater life as compared to other control methods. Since the SCR is solid state, it can cycle on and off over a billion times, if properly used.  SCRs can be used in the following ways:



On/Off Control works like a mechanical or mercury relay. When the SCR is on it fires full voltage into the heater until the command signal turns it off.



Phase Angle Fired controls proportionally turn on a percentage of each power cycle. This gives smooth, infinitely variable application of power to the heaters. Phase Angle Fired SCRs provide the most precise control of heaters, quickest response to load changes, and maximum heater life.  Only Phase Angle Fired SCRs can have options such as Voltage Limit, Soft Start, and Current Limit.



Zero Voltage Cross Switched controls proportionally turn on and off each full power cycle.  The SCR controls power by varying the number of AC power line cycles.  A variable time base determines the optimum number of cycles to be turned on or off. The switching is done at fractions of a second during the zero voltage crossing of the power line cycles. For fast responding elements (e.g. a T3 infrared heating element), the element may flicker. For heaters with greater mass, temperature can be controlled within very tight tolerances.



Normally, SCRs are controller by a linear input from a temperature controller.  This input can be 0-20mA, 4-20mA, 0-5 VDC, or 0-10VDC.