Electronic Hlt, Water Heater Kit I'm Putting Together

[Back Yard Brewer]

this sounds like its turning into a chest beating exercise about who knows more than who.... if you doubt him dont buy it. <_<

Couldn't help myself.... :lol:

 

[pbrosnan]

Couldn't help myself.... :lol:

Becoming a feature of some AHB threads. Oh for the days of the true amateur....

 

[pbrosnan]

"The sensible way to do it is to use zero-crossing switching and turn the element on for a number of half-cycles, then off for a number of half-cycles. The percentage of on-time dictates the percentage of full power the element receives, and because it is switched when the mains power crosses zero, there is no high frequency noise produced. This is the method that any PID controller worth its salt uses. PID controllers are an expensive control method, but I can't see it costing anyone $200 to put together an element and a PID controller."

As per Edison ...

 

[LethalCorpse]

?
What's he got to do with it?

 

[Carbonator]

Just thought I would post some more pictures of the controller and things you will need to do to setup.

As previously stated, this is something a competent electrician should wire-up for you.

Also some ideas to consider.

OEM 20 Amp load heatsink-


Basic alloy slab heatsink and 32 Amp oulet plug (good for up to 7800W)-






Some construction ideas-

Twin element - 4400W-






Single element construction-

 

[trevc]

Perhaps just revise the original post and remove "temperature controller"? It seems like this gear would be best suited to a kettle, where temperature monitoring isn't required.

 

[Leigh]

Nice info there mika, but obviously "we are not in the same laboritory on this science experiment."

Those "climate control" units work on the thermostat system, cutting in and out with hysterisis differential and delays designed for air temp control. They are fine for egg incubators, fridges and air conditioning systems. They are fine for the back-yarder home brewer on a budget wanting a bling display!

Also, who wants a hand held imersion element welded into a steel liquid heating vessel?

The controller I have found described in this thread, connected to a permanent immersion element, is designed to enable precision control of liquid heating. It you want bling, then get a digital thermometer from eBay for $10.

Given the thermal mass of water is greater than air (i.e. it holds retains energy better), I would have thought the opposite was true...i.e. air loses the energy you put in it when in the off mode very quickly...hence why reverse cycle air conditionaers have gone to inverters rather than thermostats...

 

[LethalCorpse]

Perhaps just revise the original post and remove "temperature controller"? It seems like this gear would be best suited to a kettle, where temperature monitoring isn't required.

It's not suited to that either because, as a proportional control relay, it's far far too expensive to make it sensible, and comes with a whole heap of noise and filtering problems.

Carbonator, learn more about your product, fix your design, and offer something that's worthwhile at a reasonable price. Otherwise, stop trying to take advantage of customers who don't understand the product any more than you do.

 

[pbrosnan]

It's not suited to that either because, as a proportional control relay, it's far far too expensive to make it sensible, and comes with a whole heap of noise and filtering problems.

Carbonator, learn more about your product, fix your design, and offer something that's worthwhile at a reasonable price. Otherwise, stop trying to take advantage of customers who don't understand the product any more than you do.

As this is an open forum people are free to say what they like and free to ask whatever question they like and make whatever decisions they like, so we don't really need the Big Brother tone. Your sig says it all. BTW nice pics Carbonator.

 

[sinkas]

Jeez,
This guy seemed to be saying it was a work in progress, I really dont see why so many had to guilt trip and denounce him so hard, when it appears he is trying to put somthing together that could be really useful. I wish I knew how to comeup with somehting a little innovative in the brewing scene.

 

[mika]

So do those in the Sandgropers case swap Sinkas

 

[LethalCorpse]

As this is an open forum people are free to say what they like and free to ask whatever question they like and make whatever decisions they like, so we don't really need the Big Brother tone. Your sig says it all. BTW nice pics Carbonator.

Quite right, we're all free to say what we like, so long as we obey the forum's rules and relevant legislation. I'm not a lawyer, but I understand there is a significant body of legislation prohibiting advertising a product as doing something it does not do. That might be something the seller might wish to consider.

Meanwhile, as someone who knows a few things about the various methods of controlling power and temperature in heating systems, I'm exercising my freedom to say what I like in here. I'm using it to explain to anyone who cares about how systems like this work, some of the rationale behind different design decisions, and market conditions concerning appropriate pricing for some of the different methods. I'm not trying to be big brother, you're free and welcome to purchase whatever you like from whomever you like. But if reading my input allows someone to make better informed decisions, or prevents them from being taken for a ride, that would make me happy.

As far as my sig is concerned, I'm not certain what you feel it says all of, but it highlights the one area so far in which I agree with the OP - that electricity and electrical wiring are dangerous, and people who don't know what they're doing should not fiddle with them. I defy anyone to disagree with me on that.

 

[pbrosnan]

advertising a product as doing something it does not do.

You'd probably have trouble with that at law. I doubt this is an advertisement. It isn't even an invitation to treat.

stop trying to take advantage of customers who don't understand the product any more than you do

This borders on libel.

I respect your right to comment on the product (although it can get a bit tedious for those without expertise in that area) but attacking the integrity of the person who started the thread is going to far. This is not the first time this has happened in this thread.

anyone who cares

A particularly relevant clause. Perhaps you should direct your "advice" at this class of people only?

 

[gibbocore]

relax mate, all he's done is try and point out that this will not and is not the best method of temp control. If i were thinking of buying a kit, i'd be very grateful i read it.

 

[sinkas]

So do those in the Sandgropers case swap Sinkas

Its not my fault my beers are 10 years ahead of your palates! MUahahah

 

[brettprevans]

You'd probably have trouble with that at law. I doubt this is an advertisement. It isn't even an invitation to treat.


This borders on libel.

:icon_offtopic:
pbrosnan - you'd have trouble too I think. it is an advertisment and offer to treat, as a clear offer to supply has been made (4 subjects away from law degree to hang next to my other useless degrees). Its also only liable if its not true.

*rant on*

this has gone off topic. fellas take it offline onto PM if your gonna hack into each other.

LC (as anyone) has a right to voice concerns over anything that they dont think is safe. Just as Carbonator has a right to offer it (and he accepts all liabilities associated with it). Im glad to everyones comments. It didnt quite sense to me when I read it, something didnt seem right and now I can clearly see that its an electrical control device not a temperature control device. you could in theory plug a vibrator :blink: into the thing and it would control the amount of electricity going into it and hence the amount of vibration given off. nothing to do with temp persay, its controling the output of electricity.

Would it do the job? probably. Is it safe? not sure. I dont know so im not going to comment. If you like it, buy it. If you dont, dont. But at least have a the respect and patience to listen to people's warnings. LC isnt exactly dumb when it comes to electrical issues (read his other postings). So i'd tend to side with him on this.
*rant off*

 

[Carbonator]

For anyone interested, I got my heatsink rated for a 40A SSR from here

These elements shouldn't cost more than $30.

Direct from China!

You guys got ripped off! If you look on eBay, you will find the exact same things cheaper - "From China".

The stuff I'm sourcing is not from China.

The elements are made in Australia and the controllers in Italy. Trust me, there is no Melamine in anything I promote!



it would appear the setup is only suited to large kettles or stills, not HLT's.

 

[porky]

it would appear the setup is only suited to large kettles or stills, not HLT's.

Well, he finally got it!!!!

 

[pbrosnan]

pbrosnan - you'd have trouble too I think. it is an advertisment and offer to treat, as a clear offer to supply has been made (4 subjects away from law degree to hang next to my other useless degrees). Its also only liable if its not true.

Bring it on ...

 

[datman510]

Couldn't help myself.... :lol:

gold jerry.....