Electric Kettle

[kjparker]

Hi,

I was looking to build an electric kettle, based around a 3600w heater element.

I presume that depending on the boil volume I am not going to want to have the element going balls to the wall the whole time, so was thinking of ways to controll it.


Came across this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cooktop-Element...=item335ea3e6b5

to drive this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-Hot-Wa...=item4a9fe898d2


Reckon it would work? It's rated at 15amp, so in that regard it should match well, and should give some adjustability in the power.


Anyone got other ideas?

 

[QldKev]

I can't see why that would not work., good idea.

The alternative I can think off is wiring up a 2400w and a 1200w element through seperate switches. Then if both are too hot, you can turn off the 1200w once you are at the boil.

QldKev

 

[seemax]

What's your anticipated boil size? I have a 2200W element and it struggles on get a rolling boil of 30L , 3600W would be just about perfect.

 

[kjparker]

What's your anticipated boil size? I have a 2200W element and it struggles on get a rolling boil of 30L , 3600W would be just about perfect.

Probably around the 30ish litres.

My switch board has three phases to it, with the loads split across phases, so I will be actually getting a 20amp socket installed in my brew shed, to go with the 15 amp I already have there!

I was considering a 4800w element, given the above, but I think I would be struggling to controll it effectively.

 

[gava]

I have two 2200watt elements in my kettle (70lt Robinox) and it boiled a double batch fine, although if your a outside brewer you might want to whack some insulation around your kettle to keep a better rolling boil..
(elements are the 2200watt from craftbrewer)

edit: I have one lower and one higher, when I have the first runnings cover the first element I turn it on, and then the same for the second.. got it up to temp quicker. for double batches I had to have it going the whole time. so 4400watt throughout the whole boil on a double batch.

cheers.

 

[Malted]

Probably around the 30ish litres.

My switch board has three phases to it, with the loads split across phases, so I will be actually getting a 20amp socket installed in my brew shed, to go with the 15 amp I already have there!

I was considering a 4800w element, given the above, but I think I would be struggling to controll it effectively.

Though I know nothing about it, appartently a PID with SSR would be the ducks guts. If I understand it correctly, a PID will modulate the amperage instead of an on-off switching you'd expect from the decvice you showed or an STC1000. All the RIMS guys use the PID's so that would be a good area to search through.

 

[kjparker]

Though I know nothing about it, appartently a PID with SSR would be the ducks guts. If I understand it correctly, a PID will modulate the amperage instead of an on-off switching you'd expect from the decvice you showed or an STC1000. All the RIMS guys use the PID's so that would be a good area to search through.

I might look into that down the track, for now, just looking to slowly get my new kettle together!

 

[argon]

I have two 2200watt elements in my kettle (70lt Robinox) and it boiled a double batch fine, although if your a outside brewer you might want to whack some insulation around your kettle to keep a better rolling boil..
(elements are the 2200watt from craftbrewer)

edit: I have one lower and one higher, when I have the first runnings cover the first element I turn it on, and then the same for the second.. got it up to temp quicker. for double batches I had to have it going the whole time. so 4400watt throughout the whole boil on a double batch.

cheers.

This is the setup i'm looking at to install in my 80L old school keggle. I do double batches and i'ts encouraging to know that 2 x 2200w elements give a good boil. I was concerned i'd have to monitor at least one of the elements. Be much simpler if i could just have both on. What's your evap rate on your system?

 

[gava]

I did the brew inside a garage (no wind) so the evap rate was lower than noraml (usally im outside due to gas)
I've only done one brew with this and I left the tap open on the fermenter when draining to it so I wasn't sure of the final level was, i think its around 12 to 13% not 100% I will work that out next time..

the rolling boil was pretty good (Silent also which I loved) but not as hardcore as my GAS boils.. but saying that it was boiling enough. The beer turned out fine (apart from the hops because i forgot I broke my scales) yes it was a very very interesting brew session..

Im in the works of going to a brewtroller, I believe it can push out % of power to your elements so it can keep a boil at the right level. once again not 100% sure on that but i think i've read that somewhere..

All in all, Im happy with the dual 2200watt elements.. granted slower to get up to temp than my old itialian burner but still worth it.

cheers.

This is the setup i'm looking at to install in my 80L old school keggle. I do double batches and i'ts encouraging to know that 2 x 2200w elements give a good boil. I was concerned i'd have to monitor at least one of the elements. Be much simpler if i could just have both on. What's your evap rate on your system?

 

[Wolfy]

Anyone got other ideas?

I don't see any problem with the theory (but I am not an electrician).
However, the photo does seem to show a large rubber block that appears would be on the inside of your kettle, if it cannot be removed, it might impart unwanted flavours and other stuff into your boil.

On the UK based JBK forums, it seems to be a common trend to rip out the heating-elements of cheap-o store brought kettles and use them (again I'm not an electrician and have never tried this myself).

 

[argon]

I did the brew inside a garage (no wind) so the evap rate was lower than noraml (usally im outside due to gas)
I've only done one brew with this and I left the tap open on the fermenter when draining to it so I wasn't sure of the final level was, i think its around 12 to 13% not 100% I will work that out next time..

the rolling boil was pretty good (Silent also which I loved) but not as hardcore as my GAS boils.. but saying that it was boiling enough. The beer turned out fine (apart from the hops because i forgot I broke my scales) yes it was a very very interesting brew session..

Im in the works of going to a brewtroller, I believe it can push out % of power to your elements so it can keep a boil at the right level. once again not 100% sure on that but i think i've read that somewhere..

All in all, Im happy with the dual 2200watt elements.. granted slower to get up to temp than my old itialian burner but still worth it.

cheers.

Excellent... Boiling in silence is a big thing for me... the wife cracks the ***** having the Rambo on for 90mins at 11pm at night when she's trying to sleep. I know that with the Rambo i'm up and boiling well before i've emptied the mash tun. I'd expect the half hour or so it takes me to fill the kettle, the dual elements would be approaching a boil.

The calcs (thanks QLDKev) suggest that 53L of 75C to 100C should be 25mins with both elements. Could always give it a quick squirt of fire if i needed to.

 

[seemax]

The 2200W stainless steel elements are can be had for $40 and are weldless. Hot water elements are designed for water not wort... they'll need regular descaling.

Two of those, some inline switches ($5ea), hole saw or spade bit .... all done in a hour or so.

 

[gava]

On the UK based JBK forums, it seems to be a common trend to rip out the heating-elements of cheap-o store brought kettles and use them (again I'm not an electrician and have never tried this myself).

I have a 2400watt el-cheap-o kettle element in my HERMS pot, I was going to use theses on my kettle but thought I'd get the longer elements that'll get further into the wort instead of a little pocket in the corner.. Not sure if it'll effect the boiling but in my mind it did im happy with the cheap-o element in my HERMS because its in the underside in the middle.. not on the side.. works a treat to. $7.95 kettle..

edit:added pictures

 

[stux]

Re: 4800W element (or 2x2400)

The TempMate from Craftbrewer is supposed to be good to 20A

 

[kjparker]

I don't see any problem with the theory (but I am not an electrician).
However, the photo does seem to show a large rubber block that appears would be on the inside of your kettle, if it cannot be removed, it might impart unwanted flavours and other stuff into your boil.

On the UK based JBK forums, it seems to be a common trend to rip out the heating-elements of cheap-o store brought kettles and use them (again I'm not an electrician and have never tried this myself).

I presume you are referring to the element, that would be on the outside of the kettle, bolted through it. There is also a threaded type that requires a nipple welded in, or some weldless arrangement fabricated.



Havent settled exactly on the element yet, or even the vessle, just working out the theory first!

Edit:

opps, yep that element has the rubber gasket protruding, I linked the wrong one... I have looked at heaps!


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOT-WATER-ELEME...=item43a304b82a


This one is a screw in, and might be easier to fit. Anyone know where I can get a 1"bsp nipple for it? Or even a nut and washer to fit for weldless?

 

[brocky_555]

You could try a plumbing wholesaler like reece or tradelink

as far as controlling the element you could use a STC-1000 but have a supplimentary relay that would handle the current (seeing as the contacts are only rated at 10A) or use a 240V contactor with 20A contacts. Its a good idea to size your contacts a little bigger than the load you are controlling for increased service life. PID and SSR is a good way to go as long as you get someone to set it up for you don't play with it your self electricity is a dangerous thing for a novice, I know because I have seen the results and had to clean up the mess.

 

[Wolfy]

opps, yep that element has the rubber gasket protruding, I linked the wrong one... I have looked at heaps!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HOT-WATER-ELEME...=item43a304b82a

This one is a screw in, and might be easier to fit. Anyone know where I can get a 1"bsp nipple for it? Or even a nut and washer to fit for weldless?

Also check what the element is made of, you'll note the ones offered at the HB shops are stainless steel, ones made for hot water systems may not cope with boiling beer-wort so well.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

I did some quick calcs for element sizing based of the latent heat of vaporisation for water and for 10% evaporation rate I got

63 Watts / Litre of wort

This is over simplified as it ignores the sugar effects on boiling but it should be ball park for minimum power requirements. For example, aiming for 46L post poil with 10% evap rate for one hour: pre boil = 51.1L and power = 3.2kW

How does this compare with people's actual experiences?

 

[gava]

There is a few more things you have to take into account.. the pot your putting it in.. i.e. wall thickness, where you are brewing.. outside inside.. Outside is colder and if you have a little wind your boil off might be more than brewing inside with still air.. do you have a insulation around your pot? etc..etc..

I find on my setup I boiled 51lt using dual elements and worked fine, i was inside so I thought i'll cut back to one (2200watt) but this didn't give me a suitable boil so I switched back to two.. I was in the garage, no wind, robinox pot, no insulation around it.

cheers.

my setup above

 

[lespaul]

I have two 2200watt elements in my kettle (70lt Robinox) and it boiled a double batch fine, although if your a outside brewer you might want to whack some insulation around your kettle to keep a better rolling boil..
(elements are the 2200watt from craftbrewer)

edit: I have one lower and one higher, when I have the first runnings cover the first element I turn it on, and then the same for the second.. got it up to temp quicker. for double batches I had to have it going the whole time. so 4400watt throughout the whole boil on a double batch.

cheers.

Currently drilling some holes as we speak. Just wondering what would be a good spacing between the elements to prevent any kind of scorching without loosing too much vertical height for the bag to sit.
Got the lines currently draw for a 15mm spacing
Cheers