Electric Elements

[Thirsty Boy]

Im just about to start building my electric kettle.

using a converted 50L stainless "vessle" and going to use 2 1800w kettle elements opposite each other in the bottom of the vessle.

insulate the entire thing with a camping mat, and install a ball lock tap in the bottom of it for draining.

hoping that using 2 elements turned on will bring it to the boil nice and quick, then i can turn one off, and a single 1800w should keep it boiling easily enough with the insulation.

will be using it initially for a couple of extract brews to get the hang of it, then move up to BIAB, and eventually end up with a 3 tier system.

sound alright?

I would be tempted to put the elements both on one side.... I see no particular disadvantage and the possible advantage is that you introduce an asymmetrical component to your heating, which will (or more accurately might...) give you an advantage inasmuch as you will be able to get a more vigorous exchange of wort from top to bottom of the kettle and achieve all the goals of boiling more effectively without applying more heat.

Of course if your goal is to turn off one of the elements during the actual boil... it'll be asymmetrical anyway.. but it might help to have them on the same side if you end up needing to use them both.

Not sure... just speculating

TB

 

[0M39A]

I would be tempted to put the elements both on one side.... I see no particular disadvantage and the possible advantage is that you introduce an asymmetrical component to your heating, which will (or more accurately might...) give you an advantage inasmuch as you will be able to get a more vigorous exchange of wort from top to bottom of the kettle and achieve all the goals of boiling more effectively without applying more heat.

Of course if your goal is to turn off one of the elements during the actual boil... it'll be asymmetrical anyway.. but it might help to have them on the same side if you end up needing to use them both.

Not sure... just speculating

TB

hmm, guess i can see some logic in that

still got to pick up a stainless vessle, and i'll grab the kettles on the weekend. pretty sure the local kmart has 1800w kettles for something like $10 each. wouldnt be a problem using them at all would there? theyre cordless, but inside its just got standard 3prong contacts. easy enough to wire up to 240v and insulate (dont worry, mates a sparkie, and old man is a fitter and turner by trade, everything will be spot on).

 

[justsomeguy]

Maybe I missed something here, or my maths is way off, but how can you achieve 3600W with 1 x 1800W & 1 x 2400W element? :blink:

Sorry about that Schooey. Bad headcold at the moment.

Should really read 1800, 2400, 4200W

Is everyone using submersable elements? How about 2 or 3 electric stove hotplates?

I'm using two hot water heater elements. I've not heard of anyone using stove hotplates. The problem I can see with stove hotplates would be the heat losses due to the amount of contact the plates would have with the vessel. Hot water heater elements are in direct contact with the wort and are extremely efficient as virtually all of the heat generated by the elements is transferred to the liquid. There is very little loss to the outside environment. On the other hand consider a gas burner. It boils the wort but a lot of heat is also wasted. Well, if you stand next to it during winter and it keeps you warm then I guess its not really wasted.


gary

 

[Andyd]

hmm, guess i can see some logic in that

still got to pick up a stainless vessle, and i'll grab the kettles on the weekend. pretty sure the local kmart has 1800w kettles for something like $10 each. wouldnt be a problem using them at all would there? theyre cordless, but inside its just got standard 3prong contacts. easy enough to wire up to 240v and insulate (dont worry, mates a sparkie, and old man is a fitter and turner by trade, everything will be spot on).

I'd love to hear how you go. I was speaking with a heating element supplier who advised that the density of kettle elements would be too high to avoid caramelising sugars... was was advising elements that had a density of 77kW/m2... kettle elements are something like 180kW/m2

So who brews up a good light pilsner with electric elements? I'mkeen to find out before I fork out $150 per element....

Andy

 

[0M39A]

I'd love to hear how you go. I was speaking with a heating element supplier who advised that the density of kettle elements would be too high to avoid caramelising sugars... was was advising elements that had a density of 77kW/m2... kettle elements are something like 180kW/m2

So who brews up a good light pilsner with electric elements? I'mkeen to find out before I fork out $150 per element....

Andy

I thought about that as well, but i doubt it would make that big a difference? once the wort gets to a nice rolling boil, it shouldnt be in contact with the element long enough to caramalise. pre boil, as long as you constantly stir it, it should be ok. of course this is all speculation, i could be totally wrong, but in which case i'll just shell out for some premium elements. total loss? $20 for the kettles.

will let you know my findings. more interested in brewing weizens atm over pilsners, but the same principal stands.

 

[justsomeguy]

I'd love to hear how you go. I was speaking with a heating element supplier who advised that the density of kettle elements would be too high to avoid caramelising sugars... was was advising elements that had a density of 77kW/m2... kettle elements are something like 180kW/m2

So who brews up a good light pilsner with electric elements? I'mkeen to find out before I fork out $150 per element....

Andy

I wouldn't be paying out $150 each for elements !

I got mine from Stokes in Ringwood, Melbourne for around $100 for the two I started with. Recently got another 1800watt element to go in the HLT that cost $75. Low density hot water element. Part No. 1327BL 120kW/in3

HTH

gary

 

[mesa]

Hi OM39A,

My first few extract brews were on a bucket of death using a $10 kettle element. I'd heard about the potential for wort scorching but dismissed it on the same grounds as you have (rolling boil should eliminate hot spots). Two different recipes turned out a very similar colour with a very similar flavour (too sweet). At the time I was also just begining to use in immersion chiller and I thought the darker than expected colour might have come from that (it came out very tarnished) In hindsight I now believe that the kettle element was caramelising the wort (I still use the immersion chiller with no effect on colour). The beer was still nice but was not to style and could have benifited from higher bittering hops. I now advocate wiring 4 elements in series/parallel to reduce power density. However since I've never actually tried this you probably shouldn't pay too much attention to me.

Hanzie,
On the topic of hotplate I though about trying that too. It might be possible however I suspect the limiting factor is how fast you can get heat from the hot plate through the kettle to the wort. A gas burner has a much higher temperature than a hot plate, so for a given thermal resistance the heat is carried across more quickly. I suspect that to get 2kW of heat into the kettle the hotplates have to be so hot they burn them selves out. I also suspect that unless you insulate all around your hot plates, the heat will find a way to escape before it is transfered to your kettle and if you do insulate around your hot plates you've got a serious burnout/fire risk. Still I'd love to see the result of an experiment. If you get a small pot of water and insulate the sides and keep the lid on and put it on one hot plate and measure the temperature at certain times, then graph time verses temperature, you'll either get a straight line (in which case your good to go with 3 hotplates) or a line which gets a bit droopy as time goes on (in which case you might need to work out the droopieness to see if its worth pursuing 3 hotplates). Unfortunatly life at the moment leaves little time for brewing let alone experimenting ;-)

 

[Lukes]

I wouldn't be paying out $150 each for elements !
I got mine from Stokes in Ringwood, Melbourne for around $100 for the two I started with. Recently got another 1800watt element to go in the HLT that cost $75. Low density hot water element. Part No. 1327BL 120kW/in3
HTH
gary

+ 1 for the Stokes elements (they have a little shop out back of the warehouse in Ringwood).
For my HLT not the kettle as that's gas so can't help there.

 

[hanzie]

Coil stove hotplates are $50 for 1500W so $100 for 2 to really be powerfull enough. And I figure if I mount them in a shalow metal contianer thats the same size as my pot like the bottom 100mm of a 44gal drum i might be in business. Maybe fill the base with sand to reflect the heat back up and protect me agians a fire. Even if I lose 1/3 of the heat Im still ok.
Those elements can burn red hot for hours and are desighned to be mounted in a metal dish.

 

[crozdog]

Walk into gameco with $150 & you'll walk away with a HP burner, 2m hose & an adjustable HP reg + change.

I know many people are very happy with their electric setups, but believe gas should be considered as has many advantages including:
- it is quick, easy and very controllable.
- you don't need to worry about ensuring your kettle is leak free after drilling it to install your elements
- no concerns re potential dangers of mixing electricity & water eg in a boil over
- no dramas with making electrical connections safe on the outside of the kettle
- it's portable
- you can use your burner for other things eg take it camping
- no worries about having multiple circuits of adequate capacity available to operate

Sure I know gas has its disadvantages too, but In my situation gas wins out - particularly in the safety department.

Sorry for the hijack, I just think that people should consider the pro's and cons of all options carefully before making any such decision.