Dunkelweizen

[aster1]

Dunkelweizen
Method: Extract

Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 20 liters
Boil Size: 11 liters

Fermentables
2.5 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat
1 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Light

Steeping Grains

250 g German - Chocolate Wheat
250 g United Kingdom - Black Patent
250 g American - Midnight Wheat Malt
250 g American - Roasted Barley or Joe White Wheat Malt Roasted
250 g German - Smoked Malt or Weyermann Oak Smoked Wheat Malt

Hops
30 g Domestic Hallertau Pellet 3 Boil 60 min
15 g Domestic Hallertau Pellet 3 Boil 30 min
15 g Domestic Hallertau Pellet 3 Boil 5 min

Yeast
Mangrove Jack - Bavarian Wheat Yeast M20
Fermentation Temp:
25 °C

What do you think?

If i do those subs will it be too much of a wheat overload?
Very keen to try these wheat malts out!

 

[Matplat]

What you have there is a cross between a stout and a weizen...

I inadvertently made a similar brew by using a can of dark malt extract and a can of wheat malt extract.

It was not a good beer, the roasted and acrid tones you will get from the black patent and roasted barley don't marry well with the yeast generated flavours, although I can't comment on smokey flavours. This is just my taste however.

If you want to make a traditional Dunkleweizen you really need to get hold of some munich extract.

 

[aster1]

What you have there is a cross between a stout and a weizen...

Ahh thats actually good for me then, i was aiming for a cross over style, specifically a wheat stout!

perhaps i should ferment at a lower temp to neutralise some of the esters? Although a banana-choc flavour would be interesting...

For transparency sake I based my recipe from this one:
https://beerrecipes.org/showrecipe.php?recipeid=973

 

[Matplat]

smokey roasted banana chocolate.... quite a combo, I'l let you forge that path mate

 

[aster1]

smokey roasted banana chocolate.... quite a combo, I'l let you forge that path mate

Ha, where the fearless (or stupid) tread

 

[kaiserben]

There is such a thing as a SchwarzWeizen. Though the schwarz part is more like a schwarzbier than a stout. Not sure about your Stoutweizen, but don't let that stop you.

The Dunkelweizens I make are very dark, but still brown and not black.

IMO most people go too lightly on the wheat. My weizen recipes (whether light or dark) use ~62% wheat malts (and I'm very happy at around that mark).

I also favour a 90 minute boil for all weizens for a few reasons, one of which is some reading I did (can't remember the source, but this seems to be repeated almost word-for-word by a few sources) which said:

"The main reason for the extra long boil is because Wheat Malt has more proteins and the low hopping rate contributes less tannins. Because protein-tannin complexes are part of what you want to precipitate in the boil, you should boil your wort vigorously - at home for at least 90 minutes (and perhaps up to 120 minutes). "

 

[yankinoz]

25 degrees? Never tried it with a weissbier yeast, but by all accounts you should get a scheissload of banana and very little clove. Let me see, bananas smoked and then burnt and liquefied. Your recipe scares me, but has my curiosity. If you stay the course, let us know how it turns out. I'd drop all the roast except the choc, make up the difference with dark Munich and turn the recipe into a minimash.

 

[Weizguy]

<snip>
I also favour a 90 minute boil for all weizens for a few reasons, one of which is some reading I did (can't remember the source, but this seems to be repeated almost word-for-word by a few sources) which said:

"The main reason for the extra long boil is because Wheat Malt has more proteins and the low hopping rate contributes less tannins. Because protein-tannin complexes are part of what you want to precipitate in the boil, you should boil your wort vigorously - at home for at least 90 minutes (and perhaps up to 120 minutes). "

That's the way the Bavarians do it, with a 90 minute boil. I usually boil for 90 min for my all grain Weizens. Less for DME weizenbier.

 

[Mardoo]

Stone Brewing came out with a rye/wheaten stout. Can't remember the name, but I definitely remember the beer. Made with Will Wheaton. Fantastic.

Ah, here it is:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/drew-curtis--wil-wheaton--greg-koch-stone-farking-wheaton-w00tstout/221067/

 

[aster1]

Dunkelweisen / wheat stout

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: Other Smoked Beer
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 20 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.230
Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 5.5%
IBU (rager): 9.93
SRM (daniels): 35.9

FERMENTABLES:
2.5 kg - Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat (52.6%)
1 kg - Liquid Malt Extract - Light (21.1%)

STEEPING GRAINS:
250 g - German - Chocolate Wheat (5.3%)
250 g - American - Midnight Wheat Malt (5.3%)
250 g - American - Roasted Barley (5.3%)
250 g - German - Smoked Malt (5.3%)
250 g - Belgian - Munich (5.3%)

HOPS:
30 g - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 7.31
15 g - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 2.03
15 g - Domestic Hallertau, Type: Pellet, AA: 3, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 0.59

YEAST:
Mangrove Jack - Bavarian Wheat Yeast M20
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 15 - 30 C
Fermentation Temp: 25 C
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

After taking in suggestions (cheers guys) what I may go ahead with is ditching the patent black malt and replacing with Munich hopefully then the brew wont be overly bitter or burnt and the Munich will impart some nice bready, malty character, erring on the side of a traditional wheat.

Also I've gone to a 90min boil, quick question though does the hop boil stay at 60min or should I up that to 90min as well?

 

[aster1]

Stone Brewing came out with a rye/wheaten stout. Can't remember the name, but I definitely remember the beer. Made with Will Wheaton. Fantastic.

Ah, here it is:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/drew-curtis--wil-wheaton--greg-koch-stone-farking-wheaton-w00tstout/221067/

Sounds like my type of beer!

 

[technobabble66]

Your Munich (and maybe the smoked malt) needs to be mashed - it still has free starch that could cause problems in your beer.
It just means you steep it separately at 65-67*c for 30-60mins, then steep with the rest of the grains for however long you normally do etc etc

Munich is great, so I'd go with it. Just do the mini mash first. In fact, I'd crank it to 500g!

 

[yankinoz]

On boiling time, keep in mind the extracts are preboiled before concentration. I would stick with a 60-minute boil, if that.

 

[aster1]

Your Munich (and maybe the smoked malt) needs to be mashed - it still has free starch that could cause problems in your beer.
It just means you steep it separately at 65-67*c for 30-60mins, then steep with the rest of the grains for however long you normally do etc etc

Munich is great, so I'd go with it. Just do the mini mash first. In fact, I'd crank it to 500g!

Yep Ill do a separate mini mash, ill replace the smoked malt with the smoked wheat as per the original recipe in the first post.

On boiling time, keep in mind the extracts are preboiled before concentration. I would stick with a 60-minute boil, if that.

Ok so a extract is fine at 60min and is predominantly that length due to the hopping/bittering schedule I take it.

 

[yankinoz]

Yep Ill do a separate mini mash, ill replace the smoked malt with the smoked wheat as per the original recipe in the first post.


Ok so a extract is fine at 60min and is predominantly that length due to the hopping/bittering schedule I take it.

Extract is fine with a 60 minute boil or a shorter one. When you steep or minimash, things get more complicated because you're using some grain. Also, long boils with the hops in favor bittering, and you need some sugars in with the hops. There is some darkening during a boil with extracts, but less so the lower the pH. With your recipe that's not a concern.

Some extract brewers who steep specialty malts and use fresh hops add part of their extract and the bittering hops, boil 50 ot 60, and add the rest of the extract 10-20 minures from knockout. Some do a partial boil and add water and extract late. Note that wort gravity affects bittering, amd spreadsheets take it into account. Others boil all the extract 50 or 60 minutes. I'm sure there are relevant threads on this site.

I do a few "mostly mashes" (15-20% of fermentables from extract) and switched long ago to adding the the extract late.