DSGA Clarity

[brando]

For those people not filtering, how does everyone find the clarity of this beer?

This was the first AG I ever did back in 2009, and I can't really recall if the first one was cloudy or not. Now the second one I just did is quite cloudy.

Pretty sure it's not yeast haze, because it was crash chilled for about six days, then has been kegged for about three weeks now. The beer is not clearing as I continue to drink from the keg. Used US05 yeast.

Not chill haze either because it doesn't clear when warmed.

Is it likely protein haze, and if so, is this normal for a DSGA or is it brewer fault (and if so, what did I do wrong)?

My version has 13% wheat malt, and I just did a single infusion mash at 68 degrees for 75 mins (BIAB).

 

[marksy]

Photo?

 

[brando]

Crappy phone photo.

 

[marksy]

I have never made a DSGA, I really should. I used to do BIAB, I tried it a few times when starting with AG. I then moved onto a gravity fed mash tun eski combo. Now with the mash tun, you can run off the first few litres ( until its running clear) and recirculate it back onto the grain bed. This will help compact the grain bed down and act as a filter for your wort. So without disturbing the bottom of the grain bed you can now run the wort crystal clear into the kettle.

With BIAB, I remember I used to just pick up all the grain in the bag and squish it out. I imagine you do something similar. So you could be getting haze like symptoms from your BIAB process and not having the ability to filter the wort using the grain bed prior to going into kettle. If your mash tun has a tap you could try recirculating its a few times to help clear it up.

But it could also be another problem all together.

There is a thread on using Gelatine to help with clarity as well. I have tried it but didn't notice much difference in my beer. I`m going to make a lager when I get back home in a few weeks, so I`m sure i`ll have clarity problems, i`ll let you know if I do or don't etc.

 

[citizensnips]

Yeah use gelatin. I BIAB and my beers come out crystal using the stuff. I found with all beers no matter what method of brewing they're generally crystal at room temp but as soon as there in the fridge they get chill haze, this is where gelatin seemed to work a treat.

 

[brando]

I was just reading that Whirlfloc has a shelf life of about two years, and mine is about 5 years since I purchased it, so maybe that is contributing to the haze problem. Note that I only just started back brewing after 2 years break, and didn't have this problem generally before.

I'm going to do some tests with gelatine on the finished beer, and see how that goes.

 

[marksy]

Yeah who knows dude, mine is probably that old as well and half the time I forget to add it. Trial and error.

With what ever you decided to do, do one change per brew so you can work out exactly what your issue is and post the results once you've got it. If not for yourself, but a fellow newbie who might search the forums asking the same question at some point in the future.

 

[brando]

Well, I started an experiment last night by filling two glasses from the keg, and added gelatine to one glass and left the other as the control. Both are being stored in the fridge.

Surprise, surprise... the gelatined beer is already coagulating sh*t (proteins??), and clearing the beer. The top 1/3 of the glass is pretty good now, and there is a layer of sediment forming on the bottom.

I'll post a photo tomorrow night if I get a chance.

I'm going to keep the control in the fridge until the keg blows (probably another 4-6 weeks), just to check my suspicion that this particular haze would not have dropped by itself with gravity over time.

 

[Judanero]

If you can get hold of brewbrite I highly recommend it, much better result than whirfloc imo.

Brewbrite-> Crash chill/lager for ~5 days-> Gelatine in keg = Crystal clear beer.


(Though I have just bought a filter that'll get used on my pils and lagers, all ales will still get my tried and tested alternative above)

 

[marksy]

Well, I started an experiment last night by filling two glasses from the keg, and added gelatine to one glass and left the other as the control. Both are being stored in the fridge.

Surprise, surprise... the gelatined beer is already coagulating sh*t (proteins??), and clearing the beer. The top 1/3 of the glass is pretty good now, and there is a layer of sediment forming on the bottom.

I'll post a photo tomorrow night if I get a chance.

I'm going to keep the control in the fridge until the keg blows (probably another 4-6 weeks), just to check my suspicion that this particular haze would not have dropped by itself with gravity over time.

Cool dude.

 

[brando]

Here is the difference between gelatined and un-gelatined, after a few days in the fridge.

I reckon it's proteins dropping out of suspension, as opposed to yeast.

The un-gelatined version IS starting to clear, but at a rate that would take it about a month or more in the fridge to compare in clarity.

 

[marksy]

Wow. Heaps clearer. What you were after?

 

[Trevandjo]

Here is the difference between gelatined and un-gelatined, after a few days in the fridge.

I reckon it's proteins dropping out of suspension, as opposed to yeast.

The un-gelatined version IS starting to clear, but at a rate that would take it about a month or more in the fridge to compare in clarity.

Are there any noticeable differences in taste. I was under the opinion that gelatine strips some of the hop flavour.

 

[hathro]

Curious to know this too.

 

[vorno]

I use a Braumeister so my wort run off is very clear. I've been chilling my wort to ferment temps b4 pitching the yeast and also trying a decent cold break bringing the temps down to 3 or 4 degrees then letting it rise again to ferment temps in the hope of clear beer, but have also had problems with the clarity. I use whirlfloc at about 15 mins. the last half dozen brews I've been using gelatine in the keg and it's crystal clear in about 10 days evn with dry hopping. BUT, I definatety find a reduction in hop flavour and aroma.

 

[brando]

Are there any noticeable differences in taste. I was under the opinion that gelatine strips some of the hop flavour.

I've not heard of gelatine stripping hop flavour before, but now that it's mentioned perhaps I do notice a slight reduction (not sure though - it could be in the mind).

I do find the overall flavour of the beer to be better now that it's clear, but that could be in the mind too. There seemed to be some harshness before that has now gone.

 

[labels]

If you can get hold of brewbrite I highly recommend it, much better result than whirfloc imo.

Brewbrite-> Crash chill/lager for ~5 days-> Gelatine in keg = Crystal clear beer.


(Though I have just bought a filter that'll get used on my pils and lagers, all ales will still get my tried and tested alternative above)

I used to filter all my lagers. Everybody expects a crystal clear lager and it's much nicer to present it this way than with haze. However, I stopped this practice for a number of reasons. Firstly, filtering strips out a lot of flavour, both malt and hops. Secondly, most German lagers have some haze, they are not crystal clear. I figured if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

I do take a lot of care with making sure I use a whirlfloc, keeping trub out of the fermenter and again, when decanting from the fermenter to the keg, just put the clear beer in, as soon as the yeast gets disturbed - stop. 7 days in the fermenter at -1C prior to kegging has a massive impact on clear beer. Chill haze might form and at that temperature, drops out of solution. My advice is if you can avoid filtering, do so.

 

[labels]

Further to my last post, the same rules apply with ales. Sorry I drifted off-topic too far. Keeping the beer just above it's freezing point for a week will help chill haze drop out.

 

[brando]

Keeping the beer just above it's freezing point for a week will help chill haze drop out.

Really? I didn't think that chill haze was in suspension? I must do more reading.

 

[verysupple]

Really? I didn't think that chill haze was in suspension? I must do more reading.

Yeah, chill haze is a protein-polyphenol complex. That means it's a largish molecule in suspension. Anything that is higher density than the bulk medium will settle out in time. So labels is right. If you chill your beer enough to cause chill haze, and leave it there long enough, the haze will all drop out ("precipitate" in science lingo).