Dry Hopping and Cold Crashing

[contrarian]

I would think that if you had a tasteless IPA that you should be looking at your boil/whirlpool additions rather than dry hopping. Dry hopping should enhance this but it can't replace what should happen in the boil.

 

[BKBrews]

I would think that if you had a tasteless IPA that you should be looking at your boil/whirlpool additions rather than dry hopping. Dry hopping should enhance this but it can't replace what should happen in the boil.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Dry hopping will add to your aroma, not your flavour. Look at adding more to your late hop additions to try and up the flavours.

 

[damoninja]

cold crash then dry hop. this gets the yeast cell count down to reduce the hop oils being absorbed and dropped out with the yeast

Curious... I was always of the school that a warmer beer would release more of these oils, is there any merit to this? And if there is, doesn't disregard above as you say it's going to end up in yeast.

My typical schedule is generally something like this:

Dry hop, 5 days
Day 4-5, drop temp, takes ~24hrs
Gelatin, 24-48hrs

Would you suggest something more like this?

Drop temp, takes ~24hrs
Gelatin, 24 hrs
Dry hop, 5 days

 

[user 35653]

Keep in mind also that different hops impart different flavors depending on the amount of time they are left in the FV when dry hopping. ie. Galaxy, well known for it's grassyness if left for too many days.

Edit: I just remembered this quote from Brewdog re. dry hopping that came out of the DIY dog, '..To get the best possible profile from the dry hops we recommend dry hopping post fermentation for 5 days. Dry hops should be added at cellar temperature. We find 14°C results in the most aromatic dry hop profile.'

Not saying they are the be all and end all but it's another approach.

 

[BKBrews]

My dry hop for this brew is 55g Galaxy pellets, 40g Amarillo pellets and 40g Chinook flowers. This is my schedule so far:

Brew Saturday 07/01/2017. SG: 1.042
Pitch Yeast Sunday 08/01/2017 2am @ 18 degrees Celsius
Thursday 12/01/2017 8am gravity down to 1.017, temp bumped to 21 degrees for finish/diacetly rest
Friday morning 13/01/2017 likely finished - down to 1.010 as expected

Rest of the plan:
Leave at 21 until Sunday 15/01/2017 6pm and dry hop
Leave at 21 during dry hop
Wednesday 18/01/2017 6pm commence cold crash to 1 degree
Saturday 21/01/2017 morning rack to keg, put in keezer and start gassing.

 

[Tony121]

My dry hop for this brew is 55g Galaxy pellets, 40g Amarillo pellets and 40g Chinook flowers. This is my schedule so far:

Brew Saturday 07/01/2017. SG: 1.042
Pitch Yeast Sunday 08/01/2017 2am @ 18 degrees Celsius
Thursday 12/01/2017 8am gravity down to 1.017, temp bumped to 21 degrees for finish/diacetly rest
Friday morning 13/01/2017 likely finished - down to 1.010 as expected

Rest of the plan:
Leave at 21 until Sunday 15/01/2017 6pm and dry hop
Leave at 21 during dry hop
Wednesday 18/01/2017 6pm commence cold crash to 1 degree
Saturday 21/01/2017 morning rack to keg, put in keezer and start gassing.

Pretty much what I do, though I skip the diacetyl rest for ales. May try crashing then dry hopping 3-5 days after this discussion.

 

[BKBrews]

Pretty much what I do, though I skip the diacetyl rest for ales. May try crashing then dry hopping 3-5 days after this discussion.

I normally bump it up to 20 just to finish it out and dry hop, however my 2nd last batch (a golden ale) had a noticeable diacetyl/honey aroma and flavor. I realize this could have come from anywhere (the first few days in the keg were great), but I've done a bit of reading on it and decided the warmer temp for a few days can't hurt. Mind you, that batch was done with MJ yeast, which I have sworn to never use again.

 

[TwoCrows]

MJ yeast which one?

I used for the first time there M42 and is conditioning in bottle as we speak.

I heard good things with this particular strain.

 

[barls]

if you are going to dry hop warm try some a few days before and see if you can notice the difference

 

[damoninja]

if you are going to dry hop warm try some a few days before and see if you can notice the difference

I have room for 2 FVs in my fridge, when the weather's better for it, one day maybe I'll split a double batch, ferement both at same temp etc but dry hop one warm one crashed.

Or suggest brulosophy do it............

 

[BKBrews]

MJ yeast which one?

I used for the first time there M42 and is conditioning in bottle as we speak.

I heard good things with this particular strain.

I used M44. My Pirate Life clone came out pretty good, but the hop aroma in the keg faded pretty quickly and a hint of diacetyl took over. My golden ale on the same yeast tasted good for a very short period of time then smelt and tasted like honey (an offshoot of diacetyl from what I've read). That was the first and only time using M44 and had zero issues with US-05 prior, so I have switched back and will stay there.

Next time I do the Pirate Life I plan on using the White Labs California V Ale, with the same grain bill as this time and a slightly modified hop schedule (bigger dry hop and reduced early additions and more late). But I still wish I did my first one with US-05 instead of M44!

 

[Dan Pratt]

I often dry hop my beers like this when using a single FV that isn't conical for yeast removal:

Ferment for 36-72hrs @ 18c
Raise temp 1c every 24hrs till I reach 22c ( basically 4days )
Terminal Gravity Reached
Drop temp to 17c - this will drop out the yeast from suspension
Add dry hops for 3-5days
Cold Crash to 4c for packaging

Ive found that you can add teh hops when there is about 3-5 points of gravity left, that way you have a c02 blanket whilst adding and addition co2 to remove the headspace o2 that is introduced when opening. It depends on the hops and yeast you use but that interaction can be great for some hops and not so great for others.

One thing i agree completely on is losing hop oils to yeast, hence why i do that slight cold crash from 22c to 17c, this removes enough yeast to limit that.

 

[contrarian]

I managed to find the old info about yeast and the advice was that it could absorb up to about 25% of flavour not the 30% I stated earlier in the thread. I would imagine most commercial breweries would yeast off before adding anything post ferment.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

As it happens, I am now doing a comparison between dry hopping with and without significant yeast activity. I usually split my ferments in two and run some sort of trial, on this latest batch I overpitched one and underpitched the other.

As of this morning the overpitched batch is finished but the other is not (diff is 0.3oP).

I have decanted the beer off the finished batch and put the other batch over the cake, hopefully it will catch up in a day or so.

I've also put equal amounts of dry hops in each batch, they'll each get four days total (two at 17 oC followed by two at 10 oC). I'm looking forward to seeing if there's a significant difference.

At present there's a small difference in ester profile, the overpitched batch is lower than the other but both are quite low, the yeast was treated with oleic acid to reduce ester formation and the wort was properly oxygenated. Hopefully time and the extra yeast will reduce the difference so it doesn't interfere too much.

 

[IsonAd]

I do similar to pratty, dropping to about 16 deg to drop some yeast out then dry hop. Then cc for a few days before packaging. In my experience I think you get a different dryhop profile from cold v warm dry hop, so best to play around and see what suits you. The Epic pale ale clone uses both warm and cold dry hopping and produces an amazing aroma so there is merit in doing both warm and cold - also uses a shit tonne of hips in the whirlpool too so you never know...

 

[manticle]

This is exactly what I was going to say. Dry hopping will add to your aroma, not your flavour. Look at adding more to your late hop additions to try and up the flavours.

How does dry hopping not add to flavour?

Soak some hops in water overnight, drink the water and tell me there's no flavour change

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I used M44. My Pirate Life clone came out pretty good, but the hop aroma in the keg faded pretty quickly and a hint of diacetyl took over. My golden ale on the same yeast tasted good for a very short period of time then smelt and tasted like honey (an offshoot of diacetyl from what I've read). That was the first and only time using M44 and had zero issues with US-05 prior, so I have switched back and will stay there.

Next time I do the Pirate Life I plan on using the White Labs California V Ale, with the same grain bill as this time and a slightly modified hop schedule (bigger dry hop and reduced early additions and more late). But I still wish I did my first one with US-05 instead of M44!

I used M44 in an IPA recently and it tastes pretty good, certainly not lacking hops. What temperature did you ferment at? It seems to be pretty active even down at 17deg (which is what fermented the IPA at).

 

[peteru]

As it happens, I am now doing a comparison between dry hopping with and without significant yeast activity.

Any observations on this yet or too soon?

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

They were bottled Saturday after 6 days dry hop: I was called away to Beechworth on days 4 and 5. Didn't seem to be much difference while I was bottling (apart fom turbidity).

I'll look at two samples on Wednesday, they'll be fully carbonated by then but not yet fully conditioned. I won't call that a definitive result but it should be interesting. You'll have to wait two weeks for them to be fully ready.

 

[contrarian]

Was chatting to our friendly local brewer last week and he was telling us about a Vermont IPA he had brewed recently.

Apparently the style involves dry hopping twice, once during active fermentation and once after it has finished.

I'm no scientist it apparently there is an interaction between the hops and the yeast that results in different flavours that contributes a different quality.

So it seems there is no right or wrong way, just different ways that produce different results.