Domestic Violence

[spog]

Feldon,your post #119 I skimmed through it and two things struck me.
1. Mark Latham is a ......
2. As a long time ABC radio listener I am concerned that the ABC is ? Becoming more commercial .


Madpierre06, yrs ago our nieghbor always got shit face on Friday nights on cheap port and bashed his wife,one Friday night I was in my shed when I heard the prick start up ,his 2 kids lept the fence into my place absolutely terrified and asked me to help their mum before I could get over the fence I heard " no more" then a smash,bang and thud.
His wife ,the kids mum took the drunken bashing Cnut down by smashing it in the face with a crockpot.
Oh sweet justice.
Although we have moved I still see that gutless prick from time to time and I smile at him ,knows I know what an arsehole he is.

 

[contrarian]

One important thing to understand about domestic violence is that it is about power and control. Physical violence may or may not be a part of it and often comes further down the track.

Focussing on physical violence misses the point. It is often emotional abuse, isolation from family and friends, financial control and a systematic breaking down of self esteem and self efficacy so when violence does become part of the picture it isn't as simple as walking out the door.

There is no justification for this behavior and for Latham to attempt to legitimize biome was as a coping method is flat out appalling.

What should be taught in schools is identifying early traits of controlling and violent people so that people can avoid entering these relationships in the first place.

At least we are finally having a conversation about this as a society. That's the first step in making some positive change.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Problem is....they stay and cop it sweet...regardless of which side it is....

And if they do leave it follows them, if there are kids, it'll follow them for years and years. If it's intimidating behaviour or denigration/alienation of children; government agencies and courts won't deal with it because they just don't know how to do that without having negative impact on the children and that's if it can first be proven.
There are some fucked up people in this world who believe they should control their relationships, and that trumps everything including their own kids.
There is a very fine line between love and hate, and when the person who hates you most knows your inner most secretes, your fears,hopes,and dreams..... well lets just say I know from experience.
Solution?.... to be honest I don't know. Money as far as I can see is being poured down the funnel of family law and child protection at a rate that would seriously shock most and outcomes less than stellar. The rate of male suicide related to family breakdown is 6 or 7 times that of deaths resulting from DV. (annually)
No legal system anywhere has got this right yet, and I know it's unlikely to happen in my life time.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yeah the whole Family Law court thing is just one big nightmare....been there twice, know many who are or been there

The main problem is the massive backlog just to get a hearing, plus all the pre-requisites like mediation, parenting courses ( I kid you not !!! ) just to get your name in the book for a mention.

Then the judge will want all sorts of things from all sort of people.

In the end for something like getting more access for your kids can take longer than 12mnths and in that time a lot of damage can be done

 

[Lager Bloke]

Sad state of affairs- I don't think anybody has the easy fix for DV problem. I will always speak up + offer help/assistance if it was friends or neighbors.If it was being done to or by one of my family it would sort it out there and then as soon as possible-nothing excuses violence and abuse against somebody in a relationship with someone else.

 

[butisitart]

i've had the dad daughter conversations with all my daughters - 22 to 30 yrs old now. they know to get up and walk early if things start going astray - back through my front door is always a good door. i sadly don't have a way of getting HIM to walk away if he is going down that road. and that's another facet of the power thing. it's not her fault, but she has to walk. thankfully i haven't had the knock on the door, but you never really know what's going on in any relationship unless you're one of the two people in the room.

 

[pcmfisher]

i've had the dad daughter conversations with all my daughters - 22 to 30 yrs old now. they know to get up and walk early if things start going astray - back through my front door is always a good door. i sadly don't have a way of getting HIM to walk away if he is going down that road. and that's another facet of the power thing. it's not her fault, but she has to walk. thankfully i haven't had the knock on the door, but you never really know what's going on in any relationship unless you're one of the two people in the room.

All you can do is have a word in his shell like ear and make it known it will be his one and only warning.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Sad state of affairs- I don't think anybody has the easy fix for DV problem.

I second that, same as there will never be an easy fix for war, bigotry, the sucker punch, trying to change anything that is part of the human make up is like pushing shit up hill, it is nigh on impossible.

 

[contrarian]

But it is possible to change people's behavior about what is widely considered to be normal behavior. Drink driving is a great example of something that wasn't even a thing but through changing laws and relentless campaigns is viewed very differently by society than it was a generation ago. It doesn't mean it has been completely eradicated but the harm associated has been reduced.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Drink driving has been reduced, people are more aware of the results of drinking and driving but it isn't a human trait, anger is something we all have, controlling that anger we don't all have, that is why we have road rage, DV , sucker punching and lacking tolerance of a different race or culture.

 

[contrarian]

They are both about impulse control, stopping and thinking before you do something. In one case responding to people aggressively when you feel anger in another case not driving when you know you've had too many. Millions of people manage to feel anger every day and yet not take it out on other people. Not doing what you feel every second of the day is the basis of a civil society and why we have a legal system that punishes people with issues around impulse control.

Just because people feel anger is a poor excuse to accept that there will be violence in our society and there's nothing we can do about it. We may not be able to completely irradiate it but we can make it much more socially unacceptable than it currently is.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

As you say one is controlling an impulse but it is another kettle of fish controlling an emotion, emotion doesn't make you jump in a car and drive under the influence, but a conscious decision whether to drive or not.
Everyone feels anger no one person is immune to it, most will control it while others can't. Everyone is capable of murdering another person but we don't go out and do it, but there are those of us who can do it without any remorse or conscience about doing it, no matter what deterrent is in place, or how socially unacceptable it is it has gone on for thousands of years and will always go on.

 

[contrarian]

It's a massive cop out to say that some people can't control their anger and I personally think that is complete
Bull shit. All me people don't control their anger and perpetually blame other people for it. It's not because they can't it's because they won't.

He belief that people aren't responsible for their own behaviour or can't be expected to control their emotions is what perpetuates the status quo. I would be that if these cowards who bash and kill their wives and girlfriends were facing a 2 meter tall UFC heavy weight they would find a way to be angry and emotional without resorting to violence.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Some people suffer with anxiety, some with depression or bi-polar they can't control that, same as a person with APC can't control their actions, they will not admit to a having a problem and therefore can't be helped until they do admit to it.
No such thing as a perfect world, yes we can try to make it better by saying there are certain things that aren't acceptable that will have some impact but I am afraid that for some that will not change their attitudes.

 

[Dave70]

It's a massive cop out to say that some people can't control their anger and I personally think that is complete
Bull shit. All me people don't control their anger and perpetually blame other people for it. It's not because they can't it's because they won't.

He belief that people aren't responsible for their own behaviour or can't be expected to control their emotions is what perpetuates the status quo. I would be that if these cowards who bash and kill their wives and girlfriends were facing a 2 meter tall UFC heavy weight they would find a way to be angry and emotional without resorting to violence.

What would likely happen after facing off against the UFC guy, being further demoralized and humiliated, our hero would return home in a stinking rage and still bash their respective partner.
Replace the UFC guy with a boss, cop, smartness down the pub or any other figure who outguns him / her either physically, intellectually or both and the result will be the same. Like I said before, this shit cuts far deeper than simple anger management (though it obviously a major component). You don't even have to raise your voice or your hand do ruin someones life. Years of psychological abuse can be equally as devastating.
If you habitually go around bashing and bullying people, you are mentally ill, not just angry. If this cant be corrected with drugs or therapy, you should be removed from society until it can.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Alex in A clockwork orange was cured, here is a similar treatment. (the original is to explicit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bgEHAKcG9k

 

[pcmfisher]

What would likely happen after facing off against the UFC guy, being further demoralized and humiliated, our hero would return home in a stinking rage and still bash their respective partner.
Replace the UFC guy with a boss, cop, smartness down the pub or any other figure who outguns him / her either physically, intellectually or both and the result will be the same. Like I said before, this shit cuts far deeper than simple anger management (though it obviously a major component). You don't even have to raise your voice or your hand do ruin someones life. Years of psychological abuse can be equally as devastating.
If you habitually go around bashing and bullying people, you are mentally ill, not just angry. If this cant be corrected with drugs or therapy, you should be removed from society until it can.

Unfortunately this doesn't happen anywhere near often enough. So what then?

 

[contrarian]

There's a big difference between being an abusive **** and being mentally ill although you the two can coexist.

The main diagnoses that would relate to ongoing abuse would be sociopathy or psychopathy, these are very rare, much rarer than mental illness. Depression, anxiety, bipolar are all treatable and even if they are not are absolutely zero excuse for physically, psychologically or emotionally abusing people.

We as men, need to stop making excuses for men who abuse their partners and children. It might not eradicate the problem completely but it could improve the lives of thousands of people.

We need to stop saying shit like he was a good bloke about people who have bashed or killed their wives or children. If you do that you are not a good bloke, you are a ******* low life and should be remembered as one

The belief that nothing can be done about this or that it is human nature absolves people of standing up and saying that this shit isn't acceptable in our society. There is plenty that can be done to both educate men and women about the nature and impact of violence on themselves and their children and there is a lot more we can do in supporting people to leave violent, abusive or controlling relationships. There is a lot more that can be done with perpetrators to help them understand the impact of their actions, take responsibility for them and make positive changes in their lives and I believe as a society we should be doing all we can about it!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

. Depression, anxiety, bipolar are all treatable and even if they are not are absolutely zero excuse for physically, psychologically or emotionally abusing people.

We as men, need to stop making excuses for men who abuse their partners and children. It might not eradicate the problem completely but it could improve the lives of thousands of people.

We need to stop saying shit like he was a good bloke about people who have bashed or killed their wives or children. If you do that you are not a good bloke, you are a ******* low life and should be remembered as one

The belief that nothing can be done about this or that it is human nature absolves people of standing up and saying that this shit isn't acceptable in our society. There is plenty that can be done to both educate men and women about the nature and impact of violence on themselves and their children and there is a lot more we can do in supporting people to leave violent, abusive or controlling relationships. There is a lot more that can be done with perpetrators to help them understand the impact of their actions, take responsibility for them and make positive changes in their lives and I believe as a society we should be doing all we can about it!

Depression, anxiety and bipolar are treatable all with drugs and I doubt whether anyone in those three categories would physically, psychologically or emotionally abuse people, it is those with anger management who are the issue here.
The only treatment for those people is counselling, but they first have to admit they have a problem and seek treatment.

That guy Little in Port Lincoln drove into the bay, his wife and friends told him he had a problem but refused to admit to it leading to the tragic deaths of those children. Sane people don't do things like that.

Of course something can be done about anger management but it is up to the person who cannot control his anger, as I have said previously, to admit there is a problem and go to counselling. The other question is why would someone stay in a relationship which is violent abusive and controlling, we can't make them leave.

Your last paragraph supports what I have been saying, they have a problem and need help, but this is what is being done now, its a complex issue so what is the next step to getting an acceptable standard of social responsibility those who carry out these acts of violence .

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Unfortunatly things like DV are a learnt thing. Kids see their parents do it, so naturally they follow suite. Its basically "well my parents did it, and thats all I know"

And it doesnt come just from fathers. I live across the street form a " very unhappy" house with a single mum and 4 kids. I dont hear much laughter coming from that place, but I do hear lots of crying, yelling and abuse almost daily

I feel sad for those kids. They seem like nice kids, just in a fucked up environment.

If those kids only know violence, abuse, denigration then they will take that into adulthood. And its very hard to make whole eggs from an omelet

Sure I go of at my kids at times, but with the regularity and depth that goes on across the street