Dogfish Head Raison D' Etre

[Truman42]

Now that I have a brew down on the new herms Im looking to challenge myself and was thinking of giving the recipe below a try. (Havent converted it to metric yet)

Grain Bill
14 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
1/2 lb. - Crystal Malt (60L)
1/4 lb. - Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. - Belgian Candi Sugar (add with 10 min. left in boil)
6 oz. - Pureed Golden Rasins (puree in blender with 2cups wort - add with 10min. left in boil)

Hop Schedule - 20 IBU
1 oz. - Warrior - 60 min.
1/2 oz. - Vanguard - at Flameout


Yeast
Wyeast Belgian Ardennes (3522) Yeast - 1800 ml. starter

Mash/Sparge/Boil
Mash In at 154 for 60 min - sparge as usual
Boil time : 60 min.
With 10 minutes left, add in the Candi Sugar and Pureed Rasins
Cool and ferment at 71 to 74


Has anyone brewed this before and can offer some tips and advice? Anyone actually tasted it before and if so whats it like? I cant seem to find it anywhere in Aust for sale?

I also cant find Vanguard hops anywhere. Any suggestions or substitutes? And where can I buy Belgian Candi Sugar from or is this the same as the candi syrup G&G sell?

Thanks heaps.

 

[razz]

Try hallertau hops instead truman. it looks like a tasty recipe, especially with raisins, yum!

 

[Malted]

I also cant find Vanguard hops anywhere. Any suggestions or substitutes?

My dear fellow, your search skills don't seem to have improved much as it would seem as though Craftbrewer have Vanguard hops available. Incidentally, they are the first chaps I looked at so it didn't take me a great deal of time. If you scroll to the bottom left of the Craftbrewer hops page you will see "1 2 Next". This commonly indicates that there are two pages of information. The list of hops available from them goes alphabetically and thus V for Vanguard appears on the second page since M for Magnum is the last one listed on the first page. Here is the direct link: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2967

Here is some more information about how Craftbrewer organises their hop listings:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetical_order

It would seem as Razz suggests, that Hallertau may be a suitable substitution. If I type in "Substitute for Vanguard Hops" into Google AND I read some of the information it gives me, I too would think of Hallertau. Here, have a look: http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&rlz=1R2GGHP_enAU435&sa=X&psj=1&ei=0w-_T7nvIq6hmQXJp-WhCg&ved=0CAUQvwUoAQ&q=substitute+for+Vanguard+hops&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=696f04903ec9d5bc&biw=1920&bih=864

I hope my information has been helpful to your quest.

 

[Trippers]

Now that I have a brew down on the new herms Im looking to challenge myself and was thinking of giving the recipe below a try. (Havent converted it to metric yet)

Grain Bill
14 lbs. - 2 Row Pale Malt
1/2 lb. - Crystal Malt (60L)
1/4 lb. - Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. - Belgian Candi Sugar (add with 10 min. left in boil)
6 oz. - Pureed Golden Rasins (puree in blender with 2cups wort - add with 10min. left in boil)

Hop Schedule - 20 IBU
1 oz. - Warrior - 60 min.
1/2 oz. - Vanguard - at Flameout


Yeast
Wyeast Belgian Ardennes (3522) Yeast - 1800 ml. starter

Mash/Sparge/Boil
Mash In at 154 for 60 min - sparge as usual
Boil time : 60 min.
With 10 minutes left, add in the Candi Sugar and Pureed Rasins
Cool and ferment at 71 to 74


Has anyone brewed this before and can offer some tips and advice? Anyone actually tasted it before and if so whats it like? I cant seem to find it anywhere in Aust for sale?

I also cant find Vanguard hops anywhere. Any suggestions or substitutes? And where can I buy Belgian Candi Sugar from or is this the same as the candi syrup G&G sell?

Thanks heaps.

I wonder what it would be like with the raisins soaked in some rum? Looks like a nice recipe. What colour Candi Sugar?
Good luck

 

[Truman42]

My dear fellow, your search skills don't seem to have improved much as it would seem as though Craftbrewer have Vanguard hops available. Incidentally, they are the first chaps I looked at so it didn't take me a great deal of time. If you scroll to the bottom left of the Craftbrewer hops page you will see "1 2 Next". This commonly indicates that there are two pages of information. The list of hops available from them goes alphabetically and thus V for Vanguard appears on the second page since M for Magnum is the last one listed on the first page. Here is the direct link: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2967

Here is some more information about how Craftbrewer organises their hop listings:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetical_order

It would seem as Razz suggests, that Hallertau may be a suitable substitution. If I type in "Substitute for Vanguard Hops" into Google AND I read some of the information it gives me, I too would think of Hallertau. Here, have a look: http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&rlz=1R2GGHP_enAU435&sa=X&psj=1&ei=0w-_T7nvIq6hmQXJp-WhCg&ved=0CAUQvwUoAQ&q=substitute+for+Vanguard+hops&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=696f04903ec9d5bc&biw=1920&bih=864

I hope my information has been helpful to your quest.

Firstly I am quite capable of searching for substitutes, know what alphabetical order means and have already read the hop substitutes page at Brew 365, (Which is where I got the recipe from in the first place) I also know that Craft Brewer sell Belgian Candi Sugar too.
What I meant was suggestions of where to buy it here in Victoria from a local HBS. Alternatively I wanted to know what some other fellow brewers may have used themselves instead of Vanguard and what effects their chosen hop gave to the taste of the beer. Similar to many other discussions I have read on here in the recipes forum where brewers share information on the hops they have substituted and their results.

Sorry but I thought thats what this forum was for, the sharing of information, not just the googling of it.

So thank you for your information but your condescending tone isn't really necassary. I wanted YOUR OPINION not your search skills lesson. Save that for the many many other repeat questions Ive read on here of late.

 

[Malted]

Firstly I am quite capable of searching for substitutes, know what alphabetical order means and have already read the hop substitutes page at Brew 365, (Which is where I got the recipe from in the first place) I also know that Craft Brewer sell Belgian Candi Sugar too.
What I meant was suggestions of where to buy it here in Victoria from a local HBS. Alternatively I wanted to know what some other fellow brewers may have used themselves instead of Vanguard and what effects their chosen hop gave to the taste of the beer. Similar to many other discussions I have read on here in the recipes forum where brewers share information on the hops they have substituted and their results.

Sorry but I thought thats what this forum was for, the sharing of information, not just the googling of it.

So thank you for your information but your condescending tone isn't really necassary. I wanted YOUR OPINION not your search skills lesson. Save that for the many many other repeat questions Ive read on here of late.

I also cant find Vanguard hops anywhere. Any suggestions or substitutes?

Frightfully sorry old chap, I thought the statement immediately above to mean that you could not find Vanguard hops anywhere.
I also took it to mean that you wanted to know what you could substitute for Vanguard, since it seemed as though you couldn't find it anywhere.

I do so apologise if I interpreted your statement incorrectly. Perhaps you could have said, I am not sure that I want to use Vanguard hops in this brew, could anyone else who may have brewed something like this before suggest a hop that would be suitable for inclusion in the proposed brew? Now I am confused because maybe that is not what you really meant, but did not say? I am terrible at reading between the lines, very sorry old chap.

Thank you for the clarification , I think I see what your problem is. You want to buy Vanguard hops from a Local Home Brew Store but you don't want to use them in this recipe? I think Craftbrewer is BribieG's LHBS, perhaps you could ask him to grab some for you and pop them in the post? Seems to me that you'd be better off going into a home brew store nearby to you.

If I type "Home Brew Stores in Victoria Australia" into Google, this is what I find: http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=home+brew+stores+in+Victoria+Australia&rlz=1R2GGHP_enAU435&oq=home+brew+stores+in+Victoria+Australia&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...1539.12791.1.13629.38.33.0.5.5.2.298.8006.2-33.33.0...0.0.7h6s4LdxB74&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=a8e41b1d38a5797&biw=1920&bih=864


Perhaps this would lead to a drive of some great distance (and I am unsure of how far you are prepared or able to drive) in which you'd be better served by getting mail order products from Craftbrewer. So then I typed "Home Brew Stores in Frankston South Victoria Australia" into Google and this is what I got: http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&rlz=1R2GGHP_enAU435&sclient=psy-ab&q=home+brew+stores+in+Frankston+South+Victoria+Australia&rlz=1R2GGHP_enAU435&oq=home+brew+stores+in+Frankston+South+Victoria+Australia&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...137258.147423.2.148233.34.34.0.0.0.1.453.9034.2-29j3j2.34.0...0.0.-ji5k12vCBc&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=696f04903ec9d5bc&biw=1920&bih=864

I added the 'Australia' bit because it seemed as though it was wanting to automatically look up Victoria in Canada and that is not very local is it!

Did you know that there is a shop called 'Beer N Grow' in Frankston and one at Edithvale too? Apparently they are into homebrew and hydroponics. They don't seem to have a website so I don't know what range of stock they carry. Maybe they cater to drunk stoners? Hydroponics shops are very popular here in Adelaide too. I think it stems from when you used to be able to have 4 hooch plants but I wasn't living in this state then. Apparently now you are only allowed to possess one plant if planted in the soil rather than hydroponically grown. When I say 'have' or 'possess', it is my understanding that you still aren't really meant to have them but this represents the maximum amount before which it becomes an offence.

This is just my opinion of course, it may not be factual. I don't grow dope so I am not about to test the belief.

 

[DarkFaerytale]

i noticed this is the same recipie (Edit: converted to all grain but still the same) from extreme brewing by sam calagione. great book but full of misprints, anyway, i had a mind to brew this myself just last night, please make sure to keep us updated on how the beer turns out

cheers

-Phill

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Frightfully sorry old chap,

I dont usually buy into these sports of discussions....

But you really are an arrogant ******

 

[Malted]

I dont usually buy into these sports of discussions....

But you really are an arrogant ******

Thanks old bean, it's jolly sporting of you to say so. Hurrah, Hazzah and Rah-rah ole chap and all that!

 

[Vanoontour]

Hey Malted, any chance you could get off your high horse for a moment and explain why you posted what you did? Curious as to the logic behind going out of your way to slag someone off because he didn't use the search function correctly or at all?
While I agree with the sentiment, as a huge amount of knowledge can be gained by google, I reckon there's a better way to go about.

 

[Truman42]

@ Malted..Mate...is that really you??? What have you done with Malted??
Youve always been nice and helpful to me in the past so I'm certainly not about to get into a **** slinging match with you. Besides its Friday night, I've knocked off work and I'm home enjoying my delicious IPA, while waiting for the wife to finish work so we can get a pizza, some stouts, and cuddle on the couch and watch a movie or two together.

Don't believe everything you read on Google, its not Skynet quite yet.

The brew shop in Franskton is gone and I'm sure the one in Edithvale is too. And your right a lot of them only do cater more so to hydroponics with the odd extract can and crown caps. I phoned the Narre Brew shop but he had none either.

I am happy to use Vanguard if I can source it easily enough and if not would use a substitute. Apologies if I did not word my post correctly with full details of exactly what I wanted, but I was at work and had to get back to it. I assumed most people would either..

1. Make some alternative suggestions, from hop substitute charts or own experience.
2. Suggest a local store in Melbourne they brought it from or even say they had grown some they were willing to sell me, just like local guys have in the past, Wolfy, Muscovy, Thirstyboy, manticle etc etc.
3. Or suggest an online seller such as Craft Brewer. (Without being condescending.)
4. Start a conversation about the recipe, their thoughts, opinions, experiences if they have tasted it or even have brewed it in the past.

And then I have a choice which way I choose to go after considering all the helpful information given by the experienced home brewers we have here.
Or is that not how its supposed to work??
Please correct me if I'm wrong. And if that's the case maybe they need just a link to Google when you type in www.aussiehomebrewer.com

Just the other day I was in Keg King and remembered that STUX wanted some 8mm Id elbows so I looked out for them (Although thought he wanted T's) and advised him they had some in his post. I could have just told him to "Google that ****" instead.

On the recent posts you will see..

Whatwhat ..How to use a keg system?? Anyone have a good link? Should we tell him to just Google that, plenty of info if you search.

Buckerooni..Brew Techniques For Quality And Economy (like Yeast Cake Reuse, Toucan, well, this is the kit and kilo forum!
Sorry buckerooni, but search for that, plenty of posts and other websites on how to save money in brewing.

See what i mean? I know Im going to cop **** over this h34r: but Ive read so many posts before and started doing something a certain way only to be told, "Thats the old way, its done this way now.."

Things change, information changes and questions being asked again and again by noobs keeps the topics up to date and discussed and the new information shared not just with noobs but experienced brewers as well. /rant

Anyway have a good weekend and its back to the topic for me....

 

[Truman42]

i noticed this is the same recipie (Edit: converted to all grain but still the same) from extreme brewing by sam calagione. great book but full of misprints, anyway, i had a mind to brew this myself just last night, please make sure to keep us updated on how the beer turns out

cheers

-Phill

Will do Phil, although Im doing an Irish Red Ale this weekend so its about 3 weeks off before I do this one.

 

[bum]

Greatly enjoying your new outlook, Malted. 'Tis a frightful scream!

 

[argon]

Greatly enjoying your new outlook, Malted. 'Tis a frightful scream!

Indeed

 

[Malted]

Hey Malted, any chance you could get off your high horse for a moment and explain why you posted what you did? Curious as to the logic behind going out of your way to slag someone off because he didn't use the search function correctly or at all?
While I agree with the sentiment, as a huge amount of knowledge can be gained by google, I reckon there's a better way to go about.

You're not a sporting man are you my good fellow.

I made a pair of fine saw horses recently and instead of making them at about the regular height of about 600mm high I constructed them to a height of about 900mm or possibly even higher. I must say, high saw horses are a much better to work upon those items you should wish to support. Sorry olde chap I don't understand your question, I thought I posted helpful information. I told him where to find the hops he wanted and what he could substitute, did I not?

Sorry old boy, i fail to see the slag you mention. Has someone been welding or are you talking of a lady of ill repute?

@ Malted..Mate...is that really you??? What have you done with Malted??
Youve always been nice and helpful to me in the past so I'm certainly not about to get into a **** slinging match with you. Besides its Friday night, I've knocked off work and I'm home enjoying my delicious IPA, while waiting for the wife to finish work so we can get a pizza, some stouts, and cuddle on the couch and watch a movie or two together.

Yes Hello Olde chap! Woo Whoo, over here! My my your penchant for poop surprises me. I personally would think an APA might suit pizza better but I don't wish to start a textual based, heated discussion on that topic. Perhaps you could provide some more information aboout this snuggling? I am jolly certain the chaps would appreciate some photos posted up should it get a little frisky, eh old boy, wink wink, rah-rah.

The brew shop in Franskton is gone and I'm sure the one in Edithvale is too. And your right a lot of them only do cater more so to hydroponics with the odd extract can and crown caps. I phoned the Narre Brew shop but he had none either.

Oh dear that's not cricket is it olde boy! Looks like your LBHS plans are bust.

I am happy to use Vanguard if I can source it easily enough and if not would use a substitute. Apologies if I did not word my post correctly with full details of exactly what I wanted, but I was at work and had to get back to it. I assumed most people would either..

1. Make some alternative suggestions, from hop substitute charts or own experience.
2. Suggest a local store in Melbourne they brought it from or even say they had grown some they were willing to sell me, just like local guys have in the past, Wolfy, Muscovy, Thirstyboy, manticle etc etc.
3. Or suggest an online seller such as Craft Brewer. (Without being condescending.)
4. Start a conversation about the recipe, their thoughts, opinions, experiences if they have tasted it or even have brewed it in the past.

Well I say olde boy we may have an accord here.

(1) Did I not say Halletau?
(2) Well Olde Chap I happen to be in possession of ~1kg of 2010 6.3% AA Vanguard Pellets from Ellerslie Hops, I should be happy to send you a quantity of them at no cost for the purposes of my own amusement. Or alternatively I have some home grown Hersbrucker that would be suitable for flavour and aroma additions, should you wish to pursue the home grown German noble hops angle. I am too lazy to convert the quantities you might require to metric, so perhaps you could Google the conversion for me?
(3) Online seller suggested. Bully for you if you took it to be condescending.
(4) I thought it a rather good discussion of my thoughts, opinions and experience. I don't always open up like that for other chaps particularly on such subjects as hooch.

Is option 2 easy enough for you? I should say it sounds jolly fine.

Anyway have a good weekend and its back to the topic for me....

Oh dear I think I seem to have lost interest in this enthralling thread, for now. I hope to have a good weekend but SWMBO seems to be on the warpath so I do hope that it is a productive weekend at the least. May you have a jolly dandy weekend old chap!

 

[ben_sa]

Gold... Malted... Is that you or Davis Thorne?
:beerbang:

 

[mjadeb1984]

i dont know whats going on, but im interested to hear the results of this delicious sounding beer.

 

[Truman42]

Here is the recipe converted to metric.

Raison D'etre
Recipe by Troy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recipe Specs
Original Gravity Final Gravity Colour (SRM / EBC)
Bitterness Alcohol by Volume
1.079 1.019 14.5 / 28.6 24.5 IBU 7.8%

Brewhouse Specs
Recipe Type Batch Size Boil Time Efficiency
All Grain 19.0 Litres / 5.0 Gal 75.0 min 72.0%

Fermentables
Name Type SRM Percentage Amount
Pale Malt Grain 2.0 91.97 % 6.15 Kg / 13.56 Lbs
Candi Sugar, Clear Sugar 0.5 3.22 % 0.22 Kg / 0.47 Lbs
Crystal 60 Grain 60.0 3.22 % 0.22 Kg / 0.47 Lbs
Chocolate Grain 350.0 1.60 % 0.11 Kg / 0.24 Lbs

HopsName AA% Amount Use Time
Warrior 16.7% 12.00 g / 0.42 oz Boil 60 mins
Vanguard 5.0% 13.00 g / 0.46 oz Aroma 0 mins

MiscName Amount Use Time

YeastName Attenuation
Wyeast 3522 - Belgian Ardennes 75 %

Mash StepsStep Name Time Temperature Type
Saccharification Rest 90.0 min 67.0 C

Notes: Mash In at 67C for 60 min.. With 10 minutes left, add in the Candi Sugar and 150 grams of Pureed Golden Raisins (puree in blender with 2cups wort - add with 10min. left in boil) Cool and ferment at 21C

 

[Malted]

I say olde chap, it would seem apparent that you don't require the free hops that I offered. One could only assume that perhaps you are a sportsman yourself and that you enjoy the thrill of the chasse, albeit locally. Jolly fine show I say!

Since I am such a jolly helpful chap here is a link to more information on Vanguard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard. I think you will find it quite enlightening. I certainly didn't realise that there were so many defintions or contexts to the word, no wonder you're having so much trouble searching for it!

I note that you have converted the recipe to metric, that certainly helps because I couldn't be bothered to convert it myself. It occurred to me that perchance you haven't been able to loacte them because it might be that you don't know what the brigands look like! Since we are all about sharing information I have prepared a picture to help you on your quest. Tally ho old boy, sally forth and conquer!



By the way I thoroughly reccommend the scales pictured. Note that they are not plugged into the GPO also pictured. It is not magic, the scales have an internal battery. They are good to 35 kg and accurate to 1g. I thought that a bunch of toads wallpop until I put my gun scale calibration wieghts on the scales pictured (not the gun scales because that wouldn't be relevant to this sharing of thoughts and opinions). In my opinion these scales, the ones pictured not the gun scales, are jolly good value for money; posisbly around the $40 mark from eBay. Not that there is anything wrong with my gun scales but I am trying to extol the virtues of the scales picturted. Quite usefull for weighing luggage prior to air travel, weighing out a grist and even weighing out hops, I even use the scales in the kitchen too. Being the observant chap that you are (perhaps writing this is redundant?) I have put thirteen grams of Vanguard hops on the scales; I thought it easier for you to use it as a hunting reference given that it is the quantity you require. Some say that it is an unlucky number, perchance it is but one of the elements troubling you so? Personally I don't believe in such nonsense.

Edit: your recipe calls for 13g of 5.0% AA Vanguard hops, my hops are 6.3% AA so in this case you wouldn't need 13g. This would require me to do some more searching for answers as to the appropriate amount at 6.3% AA - heh, it doesn't seem like a good option. In any rate they might look the same.

 

[ben_sa]

Fark me Malted, Your killin me here