Does Biab Make Extract Redundant?

[black_labb]

I think the main step between biab and partials is cooling the wort. It's not too hard to cool 5ish L in a sink with a bit of time, but you need some sort of cooling method for BIAB.

Doing a full mash also requires some understanding to the process. I've started working part time at a homebrew shop somewhat recently and I have to say that it takes some people a long time to figure out that the sugars fermenting in their beer comes from the grain that they've been mashing. The amount of people that look at you funny when you say that the fermentables come from the grain is kind of scary. I guess there are alot of people just going through the motions without much of a clue as to what is going on.

Edit: it's not really that many people, but it's often people who act like they know what they're talking about.

 

[MHB]

As a retailer who specialises in all grain brewing we sheppard a lot of people through the transition from kit to grain.
The two biggest changes in the last 10 years have been BIAB and No Chill the two of them together has made going AG inexpensive and easy. We used to encourage people to go extract first then move on to AG, these days there is no impediment to jumping right in.
So Im going to say -yes Extract is largely redundant.
I find the people who get the best results start with a big enough pot, trying to force a brew into a 19L cheep BigW makes the change harder, go the classic full volume no sparge route, you will consistently make good beer from the get go.
To anyone thinking of making the switch stop thinking about it and do it.
MHB

 

[Mattress]

To some people (me included) this is more than a way to get pissed cheap; it's a hobby.

I totally agree. Getting pissed cheap is just a bonus!

 

[Maheel]

how much better does extract taste than Kit and kilo (or bits)
my kits were all pretty dismal...

i have never tasted a full boil extract ?

i know my BIAB tastes pretty awesome both mini and full volume
so unless extract tastes really good, the jump to BIAB (and more 3v etc) seems really worth it

 

[Brown_hound]

I find retailers trying to push the shit they sell, over helping new brewers is fucked.

There are plenty of reasons a new brewer should not turn up at your store and open their wallet. The first: bad advice.

+1

I'm based on Sydney's Northern Beaches.

Within a reasonable distance of me are two home brewing shops... North Sydney and Asquith... Needless to say, given the obvious duopoly, there's some serious bloody price gouging going on. I'm no pirahna pockets, but it's unbelievable.

One word of advice...

Check out our sponsors. Not cheap necessarily, but out for the greater good.

The obvious inconvenience is waiting for the goods to arrive... If that's not a worry, then save a bundle by going with an online purchase.

Hound.

 

[Fish13]

Why was nicks post removed??

i thought it was a fair point.

Anyway it does actually help if the local HBS new about BIAB and AG...

 

[Nick JD]

Why was nicks post removed??

i thought it was a fair point.

I removed it. Tis the season to be jolly.

 

[argon]

do i need to do this operation for better brewings ? i would have the fears about poisons from the chemical fabric . so what is bad about my coolbox and restarant saucepot and some kitchen buckets to pour for the boilings? somebody told me this is the best program to make the beers.

Yasmani is that you? You know that i know who you are

 

[yasmani]

peter is this argon your secret email name? hello and merry happy christmas and thanks you for the helping for my coolbox pipe. come to my home in campsie next week to try a taste of my brewings from the syrips. in feburary i will have the barley grains brewing gased with bubles to try also

 

[keifer33]

peter is this argon your secret email name? hello and merry happy christmas and thanks you for the helping for my coolbox pipe. come to my home in campsie next week to try a taste of my brewings from the syrips. in feburary i will have the barley grains brewing gased with bubles to try also

Haha dont know what it is about this post but it hit my laugh button.

 

[Fish13]

I removed it. Tis the season to be jolly.

too easy

have a m

erry xmas nad a safe wen yare! hic.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Answer to OP - yes.

I've been brewing for 13 years, AG for 2 years - BIAB at the start, though I have a bizarre version of the stovetop method in a sort of 3.5V manner. Let's save the details for another time.

Extract does give you better beer than kit, because you control variables - hopping, but more importantly the concept of using yeast other than the packet under the lid.

But Partial Mash is the biggest waste of time known to humanity. If you are going to go through that effort, why not take maximum control and really nail it.

My massive caveat in this - AHB is a massive resource of information - it wasn't around all those years ago. It makes the learning process more accessible, and the ability to bridge between K&K and AG a great deal easier to navigate.

Also, more AG-centric HBS add to the accessibility of AG and BIAB - both in terms of grain access, and good hops. We've all been there, done that with stale 12g packets that cost $5.

If I'd known about BIAB back then and had access to the necessary ingredients, I'd have switched pretty well immediately after putting down the first few kits.

So he answer is - yes, extract, as a bridging step is probably redundant, but only because information and ingredients available now, that weren't as readily accessible a few years ago.

Goomba

 

[kelbygreen]

Well I can say I done extract for about a year as I hated all my kit beers. I liked extract a little better but not much. I done 1 partial and at the end thought "why the **** did I just mash 1.5kg of grain and then add extract" it took me longer as I had to add the extract at the end of the boil!!. Taste wise?? it was a little better but I wouldnt say a massive improvement considering it took the same amount of time no matter if I done that or AG.

My first AG was BIAB and I honestly didnt like it (maybe it was coming out 45mins into the mash to see my bag and some grain on the floor as I found out then dogs like grain and wort) and there was a few other problems I got after that with BIAB that I didnt like. I moved to 2v (used HLT and kettle as one) and it was a little better for me. I moved to 3v and double batches with gravity and almost got put on disability pension from lifting 60kg from the floor up to above chest height lol. Then I got a pump and made a brew stand and I dont think I will look back now (well at least not the lifting)

 

[mrTbeer]

Yes I think extract is redundant.

I'm an example of someone who with the benefit of ahb has moved from k&k to biab in 6 months or 9 brews. I wouldn't say my kits were shit but I would say that biab is better. Yes it takes longer but involves roughly the same amount of cleaning.

I bought the bigw pot for extracts but was already thinking about biab when I bought it. Next step will be an urn but at nearly $300 that can wait.

My only gripe is that I can't find a LHBS that stocks grain or hops which means I have to order online which means I have to brew 3 days after I realize I have the time and inclination to do so. With kits I can put the stove on and have purchased the ingredients before it's boiled. If I could buy grain and hops at the supermarket with my weet-bix then extract would truly be redundant. Likewise if Aldi sold a package that included a 2000w element and a 40l pot there would be no need for kits at all.

 

[stux]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=854820

"Skip the extract stage.

Extract was a way to throw dollars at a brew to get around the equipment requirements of all-grain, and is essentially obsoleted by BIAB.

The only difference between a BIAB setup and an extract setup is the $8 of voile you need for the 'bag', which doesn't even have to be a bag."

 

[freezkat]

The Cooper "no boil" kits are very fast and easy to make. Add 1-2Kg of Dex, sucrose or DME or another can of LME. Soak the cans in the wort too. The quicker you get all the sugars to dissolve the better. This retains the aroma hops in the extract. You only need to heat up 5-6L to do that. Fill your sanitized primary fermenter halfway with cold water. Pour the wort gently into the cold water. Top up with ice or more cold water to 23-25L at 18C. Sprinkle the yeast on top or take some wort out and put it in a jar. Close it and shake the piss out of it. pour it on top of the wort and rinse the jar with a little water and empty into the wort till clear. Lock up and wait.

Not needing to buy any special equipment, yeast, hops makes this a very cheap option. Not as good as AG but you can have 23-25L of beer for $20-$32... 40 - 64 per beer not including bottling or kegging costs.

If you only went with Rahr 2-Row Pale Malt 1.34/Pound in the states

10 pounds minimum = $10.34 + 2 oz of some kind of hop pellets $3-$5, yeast $1 - $6

But you are looking at a few hours of work and some added equipment. "Big pot" being number one. Minimum $30 for an enamelware canning pot. $10-$20 some kind of cake rack in the bottom to keep the grain off the hot bottom. and your bag. Not to mention cooling time, logistics and costs.

Those are the prices here in the States

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

My (about to be brewed today) AG batch.

Cost: $20 grain, $2 hops (it's a Bitter, not an APA) and $4 for yeast.

For 25L.

That works out about $1 a litre, or .65 per 640ml bottle/76c for 750mil bottle.

2 pots cost me in total $30, and the voile - about $2 on special.

Don't need cake rack, urn or anything else. The rest, the kitchen already contains.

Any who says that the equipment makes it unreachable is speaking in ignorance. We're a single income family with 3 kids and we've shelled out the meagre sum without breaking the bank.

Sure, I've since invested in 2 buckets from Bunnings to make a lauter tun, and I have a small esky for mashing, but the impetus of this topic is "what is needed to start AG and is it more than extract?".

My answer, some voile, a 2nd pot if you are so inclined.

Cost for partial batches are considerably higher - not in the least because 5kg of grain gets me $1 per kg knocked off the price.

Goomba

 

[kelbygreen]

It used to cost me about $40 for a 23lt brew using extract. It now costs me about $42+ for 42lts depending what you brew of coarse.

 

[Nevalicious]

MHB said it without pretending to be nice. Rja al also said it and I'm saying it...

if waht youare thinking is - I'll move from kits to steeped grains and or a "minimash " and ectract - to BIAB - then yea, absolutely, nomquestions asked.... the BIAB options are going to make better beerb for you.
yStop t tsuiilo twats
hard and fastnfacts - steepingn or minimashing grain, takes just as long as BIAB. q?? why are you doing that when you could be doing ag beer????? same time , same effort.....o bBy justmincoude thte bag an kalll rick on niceky

So....

You agree then??

Funny stuff!

OT, of the few Extract beers I did, they were by far the most expensive beers I have made. LDME isn't cheap, bulk bought BB Ale or even imported Weyerman grain, is!

As for the cost of equipment.... It's a hobby, it makes beer. Win win IMO. When buying new gear or ingredients, I always use the analogy of:

Think how much it costs to own and run a boat...

Then sit back and RDWHAHB

:icon_cheers:

Nev

 

[Arghonaut]

I brewed AG biab on my stove in two bigw 19l pots for a year, now I am brewing extract with a 30 min steep for spec grains. The reason is purely time. Biab took over 6 hours because I can't afford a big gas burner, bringing to strike temp and boil 30 liters of water takes over an hour. I can do a 6 liter boil with extract, and depending on the beer a 60, 30 or 10 minute boil. Takes 1 to 2 hours all up.

Cost or difficulty is no barrier, I did one kit then went straight do biab no chill, cost $50. Once I have more time and can invest in a 50l pot and burner I'll go back to AG.