Dodgy Digiboil Wiring?

[Grok]

I decided to have a look at the the wiring in my 65L Digiboil because I'm thinking about modifying for CraftbeerPi3 or simple PID control and while studying the wiring logic, discovered something that I find puzzling and potentially dangerous.
To me, this circuitry is neutral switching of the elements, meaning they are LIVE all the time, and I don't like that idea at all.
I know the Guten I have is not wired like this, and is in fact Live wire switching of the elements as one would expect of all electrical devices.

I would like other people to check their wiring and see if its the same as mine, to see if it is a mistake from factory, or is that the way they all are.

 

[cedric]

hard to see properly but...........
is that black wire going to the elements, where they are bridged?
if so, the +ve seems to be connected to that.
i have re-wired my brewzilla, and i don't think it was that way round.
the bridged end of the my elements were going to the -ve

 

[Grok]

Hi Cedric, yes the black wire is connected to the Live wire (Brown) that is on the 2nd terminal from the left, and yes it goes to the bridged side of the elements. The incoming power supply Neutral wire (Blue) is attached to the 3rd terminal from left.
The 4 PCB markings are (from left to right) N1 - N - L - L1 (see pic).
It could be they have decided to wire it this way by design, but I know enough about electricity to know this doesn't look right, and my logical thinking is saying "Danger Will Robinson" (Lost in Space!!!!).
If this has been repeated in other units, then people ought to know!

 

[cedric]

hmmmmmm.
i have been discussing the re-wire recently and looking at some supplied pictures in the thread.
a 120v digiboil 2-element, a 240v 3-element digiboil and my 240v 2-element brewzilla are wired different than yours.
ie +ve feed through the PID, controlled by relay to the element on/off switch.
-ve common to the bridged end of the elements and pump(if fitted).
maybe you got a friday arvo model?

 

[razz]

Grok, have you contacted Kegland about it?

 

[Grok]

Grok, have you contacted Kegland about it?

No, because I wanted to find out if other digiboils/brewzillas are wired the same, or is mine a one off!
This is potentially a serious issue.

 

[Meddo]

I'll have a look at mine tonight. Looks like they've got the live and neutral wires from the mains plug arse-about. Have you had it running yet?

 

[Grok]

I'll have a look at mine tonight. Looks like they've got the live and neutral wires from the mains plug arse-about. Have you had it running yet?

Yes I've been using it regularly for over a year or so. Neutral switching will make the unit work the same, but makes it potentially unsafe if something goes wrong, like the whole kettle could become live, but then the earth wire should take it to ground and flip your RCD, provided that's working of course.

 

[cedric]

found a pic of my original wiring.
mains brown active goes into the relay circuitry, then to the individual element switches.
(the extra red with the brown goes to the pump active)
the mains blue neutral is common with bridged element ends.
the bridge on the element ends also have the neutral from the pump & the neutral from the LED's on the element on/off switch.

 

[HardEight]

My 65L digi was Negative switched.

I've swapped it around... and changed control systems to the Auber DSPR400 (Brew/Distil controller) with a pump.

 

[Meddo]

Mine's the same as yours @Grok, and I agree with your interpretation that the live is common into the elements and individual switches on the neutral lines. Not an electrician, take with a grain of salt...

 

[Meddo]

My 65L digi was Negative switched.

View attachment 119443View attachment 119445View attachment 119443


I've swapped it around... and changed control systems to the Auber DSPR400 (Brew/Distil controller) with a pump.

View attachment 119445

OT, where do you have your pump drawing from?

 

[HardEight]

OT, where do you have your pump drawing from?

A 1/2" hole i drilled with a holesaw 1/2" nipple with nut in boiler and 90deg+hose barb underneath

 

[Grok]

My 65L digi was Negative switched.

View attachment 119443View attachment 119445View attachment 119443


I've swapped it around... and changed control systems to the Auber DSPR400 (Brew/Distil controller) with a pump.

View attachment 119445

By the look of your wiring, it still is Neutral switched, and you bypassed the thermo cut out disc as well, fire hazard there, not good!
You really ought to get a sparky to look at that.
BTW, that thermo cut out disc is only 10A, so to have full power channelled through, it needs to be at least 15A, preferably 20A.

But the original wiring pic confirms mine is not the only one then, perhaps an electrician could comment on this arrangement ?

 

[HardEight]

By the look of your wiring, it still is Neutral switched, and you bypassed the thermo cut out disc as well, fire hazard there, not good!
You really ought to get a sparky to look at that.
BTW, that thermo cut out disc is only 10A, so to have full power channelled through, it needs to be at least 15A, preferably 20A.

But the original wiring pic confirms mine is not the only one then, perhaps an electrician could comment on this arrangement ?

Sorry that was a mid-mod pic ... Here is a more finished one...

I didn't bypass the thermal cutout, I removed it. That was only there so donks don't turn the elements on without any liquid in the boiler (I'm a sparky by trade).

 

[Grok]

OK, I can see what you've done, presume the active is connected straight to the SSR and looped to the 2nd SSR? Hard to see with heat sleeves on the wires!
So what do think about the original wiring arrangement then?
Nice pump install as well, thinking of doing that myself.

 

[HardEight]

OK, I can see what you've done, presume the active is connected straight to the SSR and looped to the 2nd SSR? Hard to see with heat sleeves on the wires!
So what do think about the original wiring arrangement then?
Nice pump install as well, thinking of doing that myself.

Yeah that's it, "Regular" is 1k=500w and the Boost is 2k. They go thru the switches after the SSR's (Just for the indication lights mostly). I put a Pt100 temp probe into the center of the kettle space below the false bottom screen. The controller is a PID in brew mode and a power controller in distil mode. The "Boost" 2k element is just for initial heating and ramping.

RE: Digi wiring... IMO the original wiring is done in china en masse for the largely 110v US market, and a portion is then fitted for the 240v market. Hence why we get the negative switched ****. I think I saw something on the KL site that said it was highly recommended to use a safety switch type thing with it. If you have a "Safety switched" power circuit you should be fine... (Then again, I also read they also said to use a 15A-10A lead to run it dodgy lol. Go figure).

 

[Grok]

Yeah that's it, "Regular" is 1k=500w and the Boost is 2k. They go thru the switches after the SSR's (Just for the indication lights mostly). I put a Pt100 temp probe into the center of the kettle space below the false bottom screen. The controller is a PID in brew mode and a power controller in distil mode. The "Boost" 2k element is just for initial heating and ramping.

RE: Digi wiring... IMO the original wiring is done in china en masse for the largely 110v US market, and a portion is then fitted for the 240v market. Hence why we get the negative switched ****. I think I saw something on the KL site that said it was highly recommended to use a safety switch type thing with it. If you have a "Safety switched" power circuit you should be fine... (Then again, I also read they also said to use a 15A-10A lead to run it dodgy lol. Go figure).

Re original wiring, is this practice within AUS/NZ code?

 

[HardEight]

Re original wiring, is this practice within AUS/NZ code?

"AUS/NZ code" is more hardwired stuff... These these things fall under appliances..
EESS... and other International standards. They are classified and checked on importation.

I'm guessing they are ok... as long as you have a safety switch RCBO/ELCB/RCD on the power outlet you will be fine... Probably

 

[Grok]

Think I'll be changing my wiring to a safer arrangement!