Dispensing From Cubes

[delboy]

you guys should go on "MYTHBUSTERS" or better still get them to do it and you dont waste your money or get hurt .

or if you want do it like the "jackass" movies and sit on the cube while testing then post it in the funny section on the forum?

no but seriously your cube should get to around 16-20 psi before the seem gives way .also you will want to see how many times you can fill your cube at the % you want it at because you need to factor in fatigue rates as well.

i blew the seem apart on a kmart cube 20ltr at 16 psi bloody messwy cause water gose every where so do it in the drive way and lock the kids inside cause when they split they spilt .

and it is the seem that went first on mine. i tryed this a year or so ago as i didn't have kegs back then.

cubes do work a treat with beer engines though you just transfure from primary to secondary with 70g of sugar for priming seal and set releif valve in place and connect top tap after 28 days to beer engine and use a bike co2 pump with a few squirts to prevent a vaccume happening when pumping.

delboy

 

[Wortgames]

I should point out that my figure of 5psi was based on the gauge on my air compressor, which could be pretty inaccurate at these low pressures.

What I found was that at about 10psi (by my gauge), the cube would no longer sit nicely on a flat surface, and the 'notch' in the base (the bit that accomodates the handle of the cube underneath when they're stacked) started to try and invert itself.

The cube I used was the same as randyrob's first one, ie not the strongest type.


Geoffi, apparently BigW are the only place now that will exchange the old SodaStream cylinders, but I think time is running out so it may be worth trying to do the swap even if you still have gas left.

 

[geoffi]

you guys should go on "MYTHBUSTERS" or better still get them to do it and you dont waste your money or get hurt .

Waste money?

So far I'm in the red $2.95.

Oh, the pain!!!!

 

[Lukes]

Great thread.
I CC'd a lager in a plastic cube for 3 months a few years back. It fully puffed and I was always thinking I would come home to find it all over the garage floor.
It never did.

I do a similar thing with the 2 ltr PET bottles and just pickle the tyre valves.
I have not noticed any strange flavor from the rubber but I do store them upright.

I got this connector made up and it's the same as a gas post on a keg with a tyre vale filler on the other end (as you can see it got a bit close to the new sanitizer).

With say a short life span wheat beer (one week to ferment and an afternoon to be enjoyed).

I will ferment in primary to FG, fill 10 or more PET bottles, chill to almost zero, force carb and start to drink the next day.

Cheers, Luke

 

[Wortgames]

I got this connector made up and it's the same as a gas post on a keg with a tyre vale filler on the other end (as you can see it got a bit close to the new sanitizer).

That's perfect Lukes - where did you get the tyre inflater bit?

Did you have to get anything machined specially or did the threads match?

 

[Lukes]

That's perfect Lukes - where did you get the tyre inflater bit?

Did you have to get anything machined specially or did the threads match?

WG,
It came from The U.S.A.
The bloke that makes the Crankensteins mills (not the owner) machined it up and shipped it over.
He was selling them on evil bay with 1/2 a doz caps but it was a while ago.

Should be able to get something here but I have never looked.

- Luke

 

[berazafi]

You should be able to make one from a tyre inflator and a JG fitting, then just put a tee in your gas line and run it to the inflator, they self seal so no gas will leak

 

[maltedhopalong]

What an excellent thread!

I just bought a 15L cube from bummings last night and i'm excited about the possibilities!

So my question is, if I can naturally carbonate a brew in a coke bottle, surely my 15L cube will be able to take that kinda pressure. (I have no idea what "psi" that would be tho...)

So could I just naturally carbonate with the same proportion of sugar that I'd use for bottling? And when the pressure gets low (i.e. beer doesn't "spurt" out of the tap) I could just open the lid, chuck in a smidge (say 1 carb drop per litre of beer left) of dex and leave it on the bench for a few days?

 

[maltedhopalong]

Oh and also, I bought a 25L water container from bummings last night as well, very similar to a fermenter, except it has a smaller lid.

Has anyone considered using a fermenter in the same way?

 

[geoffi]

What an excellent thread!

I just bought a 15L cube from bummings last night and i'm excited about the possibilities!

So my question is, if I can naturally carbonate a brew in a coke bottle, surely my 15L cube will be able to take that kinda pressure. (I have no idea what "psi" that would be tho...)

A PET bottle is designed specifically to take those pressures. A cube is designed to take ungassed liquids. I have tested them and they do hold pressure well, but I wouldn't push it too far. British ales should work a treat in a cube. I'm not planning to serve a Hefeweizen from one any time soon.

So could I just naturally carbonate with the same proportion of sugar that I'd use for bottling? And when the pressure gets low (i.e. beer doesn't "spurt" out of the tap) I could just open the lid, chuck in a smidge (say 1 carb drop per litre of beer left) of dex and leave it on the bench for a few days?

Well, I suppose you could do that. But it sounds like a pain in the arse to wait around for extra carbonation. You'll risk spoiling the beer as well I'd say. I'm setting mine up with a Soda Stream unit and might get a cheapie CO2 bike inflator as well for backup.

I've also bought and modified a couple of 5L pressure sprayers ($9 each -- how do they make, ship and sell something like that for $9?). I think these should theoretically take more pressure than the cubes, as they are very thick plastic. (I needed to countersink the hole for the valve a couple of mm because of the thickness.) They also fit into a fridge without too many dramas and are easier to carry.

BTW, I would never buy an empty cube from Bummings or anybody. Buy a wort kit instead. For about $15 extra you'll get an all grain brew to boot.

 

[Stuster]

I'm setting mine up with a Soda Stream unit

How are you going about that? I'm hoping to do the same as I already have a number of SS bottles that are looking for more work.

 

[Wortgames]

A cube or a fermenter will be able to handle NOTHING LIKE the pressure a coke bottle can! Soft drink (PET) bottles are extremely strong and are desgined to withstand a lot of internal pressure (edit: what geoffi said!)

Cubes and fermenters will begin to deform with just about the slightest bit of pressure.

You could certainly try it with a fermenter if you have a spare one, I imagine it would handle the low pressures we are talking about just as well as a cube, but cubes are generally cheaper (if not free).

Basically you just want enough pressure to make the container bulge a tiny bit and feel firm to the touch. Any more than that and you risk leaking and/or bursting. This is a lot less than normal 'carbonation' pressure, so I wouldn't use the same amount of sugar as when bottling - just enough to create a bit of sparkle in the beer.

A this stage you will need to experiment for yourself, I don't think many people have actually served a brew this way yet so we're all just learning.

The most important thing is to make sure your release valve is venting properly.

 

[geoffi]

How are you going about that? I'm hoping to do the same as I already have a number of SS bottles that are looking for more work.

This is where I got the idea.

http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Gear/GSa...CheapKegs.shtml

Very simple stuff. You just use one of those tyre inflator gizmos with some gas line back to the SS unit.

No doubt there are other methods, but this is the simplest and cheapest I could find for day-to-day use. I worked out that one SS gas bottle is the equivalent of about 20 16g bulbs. Way better value for money. The inflator and bulb system might be the go for taking the keg to a party etc, though.

 

[maltedhopalong]

So what I"m getting out of this is that if you want to go to all that trouble of making a PRV and of making up various doo-dads to connect your cube to a soda stream, it MIGHT work ONCE but (and this is my presmption...) the cube will be weaker and will continue to get weaker everytime you repeat the process...

So what do I do with my cube??? haha. Damn, I wish there was a way to make this work, it would've been great!!! The problem is that it's just not practical unless you are going to drink the whole lot in one hit.

 

[Wortgames]

I don't see why it will only work once?

You need to put some effort into making sure your valve works correctly, and vents pressure BEFORE the cube comes to any harm, but it is costing you less than 2 dollars to build so surely you can afford to put an hour or so of fiddling into getting it right?

Once you have a properly functioning valve, and a method to put gas into it (you can get a bicycle inflater for around $30), you are good to go - as many times as you like. Simply wash out the cube when it is empty and refill it with the next batch. What's so hard about that?

If you are really desperate, and you don't want to fork out for a gas device, then try putting a bit more sugar in when you've lost all your pressure. Personally I think that sounds like a lot of messing around, waiting, risk of infection etc for the sake of a $30 gas dispenser.

There is no reason to drink the entire cube 'in one hit' any more than you need to drink a keg 'in one hit'.

 

[maltedhopalong]

I'm confused. Has anyone gassed up a cube (preferably a 15L) via natural carbonation? And did it blow the sucker up?

 

[Wortgames]

I'm confused. Has anyone gassed up a cube (preferably a 15L) via natural carbonation? And did it blow the sucker up?

Not if you have a correctly operating pressure release valve...

 

[geoffi]

I'm confused. Has anyone gassed up a cube (preferably a 15L) via natural carbonation? And did it blow the sucker up?

I have one going as I type. It's been gassing up for a week now. Needs another week I'd say to get to the right level of carbonation for an English bitter, but signs are good. The cube has swollen slightly and is becoming firmer.

As long as you don't push the carbonation too high, and have a reliable tap that can take some pressure and some kind of relief valve built into your system (I used an airlock grommet to cover the small hole I drilled in the tyre valve) you should be in business. Cubes are pretty tough, and if this system works out you should get plenty of use out of it. Just clean it out thoroughly after each use and off you go again.

At this stage we are conducting an experiment. There will no doubt be fine-tuning. There are no guarantees here, but the hypothesis is sound, and initial results are promising.

As I said before, don't expect to use one of these for a highly carbonated style. You can try, but you'd be braver than I. Think of this setup as more akin to a real-ale cask than to a metal keg. Keep expectations realistic and I'm optimistic this will work well.

BTW, check the whole thread and you'll see that a few of us have inflated these cubes to levels beyond what you'd need for ale carbonation with not explosions or other disasters.

 

[Brooksy]

Seeing cubes explode in sunlight when full of fuel is enough for me to steer clear of them for gassing. Sounds like it will eventually lead to a loss of possibly your best brew to date.

Risk management tells me to avoid the risk at all costs. Loss of good beer is too high a risk I'm afraid. (Personal opinion)

Not worried about injury, it's the loss of beer I'm worried about.

 

[Doogiechap]

Oh and also, I bought a 25L water container from bummings last night as well, very similar to a fermenter, except it has a smaller lid.

Has anyone considered using a fermenter in the same way?

FWIW I pressurize my fermenter to about 2psi (my Micromatic Reg's scale is pretty useless at the low end of the scale so the figure is approx) for transferring my beer into my kegs via a filter. I find that the fermenter swells a fair amount and at 5psi I would be feeling quite uncomfortable about the safety of my hard earned brew. I also struggle to maintain a good seal with the lid so the cube may be much better in that reagrd too.
Cheers
Doug