Dispensing From Cubes

[Ross]

I can get my hands on an old Soda Stream unit with a gas bottle. I think it's about 10 years old. Does anyone know if you can still get (or refill) the bottle used by these older models? I was at Kmart this arv and they seemed to be selling a new type of SS unit.

The old steel bottles can only officialy be exchanged (for a new Al one) at Woolworths - Some have been lucky with Kmart, through probably through someone green serving them.

cheers Ross

 

[geoffi]

The old steel bottles can only officialy be exchanged (for a new Al one) at Woolworths - Some have been lucky with Kmart, through probably through someone green serving them.

cheers Ross

Thanks for the tip, Ross. I'll pay them a visit.

 

[randyrob]

Rob
3 grams of dextrose per litre would be enough to carb to English ale standard.

Awesome thanks Vlad. I've gone with that.

Hey Guys,

initial testing proved ok. so i've filled her up with some English Pale Ale and primed her!



18L @ 3 grams of dex = 54 Grams of dextrose in a 20L Cube.

was thinking of wrapping a heater belt around her because it's pretty cold here at the moment just to speed up the process, dumb idea or not?

hoping on drinking this pretty young, end of the month most proberly

Rob.

 

[geoffi]

was thinking of wrapping a heater belt around her because it's pretty cold here at the moment just to speed up the process, dumb idea or not?

Rob.

Should be OK, I'd think. Weird flavours from high ferment temps develop early AFAIK. For a spot of carbing I'd say go for it.

 

[Wortgames]

was thinking of wrapping a heater belt around her because it's pretty cold here at the moment just to speed up the process, dumb idea or not?

I'm sure it would work, but it seems a little pointless - at warmer temps, the beer will absorb less CO2 at your given pressure.

Personally I think it would be best to store it at your serving temp and let the yeast adapt. It might even be an idea to think about seeding it with a lager yeast if you are storing it really cool?


I've got a toucan brew here ready to go, hopefully I'll get a CO2 charger (or an inflater fitting) next week and finally be able to give it a try myself...

 

[geoffi]

I'm sure it would work, but it seems a little pointless - at warmer temps, the beer will absorb less CO2 at your given pressure.

Personally I think it would be best to store it at your serving temp and let the yeast adapt. It might even be an idea to think about seeding it with a lager yeast if you are storing it really cool?

I don't see how this would be an issue. After all, don't we condition bottles at ambient temps, then cool them before serving? Isn't natural conditioning of a cube just the same thing on a grand scale?

 

[Wortgames]

I don't see how this would be an issue. After all, don't we condition bottles at ambient temps, then cool them before serving? Isn't natural conditioning of a cube just the same thing on a grand scale?

Not really - a bottle is sealed and able to trap the pressure created during carbonation. When you chill it, that excess pressure is absorbed back into the beer.

With these cube-casks, they will vent at a very low pressure - a lot of the CO2 won't be absorbed at the warmer temp, and will escape through the vent. When you chill the cube, the small amount of CO2 in the headspace will become absorbed and the pressure will drop, and you'd need to add more CO2 to recreate the pressure / carbonation.

It may work, I don't know - but that is my understanding of the science and I think there would be a big trade-off between CO2 produced and CO2 lost at warmer temps. Whether the trade-off results in a net gain or a net loss would need to be decided by experimentation of course :beer:

 

[warrenlw63]

I'm fairly certan that English breweries never allow newly primed casks to go above cellars temps. Bringing the temp up for carbonation is most likely not needed. :unsure:

Warren -

 

[geoffi]

I'm fairly certan that English breweries never allow newly primed casks to go above cellars temps. Bringing the temp up for carbonation is most likely not needed. :unsure:

Warren -

AFAIK 'cellar temps' means about 12c. Surely most ale yeasts will pretty much go to sleep at those temps, or work very slowly. I don't think adding lager yeast to casks would be a traditional part of real-ale production.

 

[Tim]

Celler temp is usually 8-12 degrees. Most cask ales are served at about 10 degrees (well at a properly cask marque pub that is !).

If you havn't tried real ale before, ie havn't been to the UK, you may think that your beer is in fact flat.

 

[geoffi]

Celler temp is usually 8-12 degrees. Most cask ales are served at about 10 degrees (well at a properly cask marque pub that is !).

If you havn't tried real ale before, ie havn't been to the UK, you may think that your beer is in fact flat.

But correctly handled real ale, even if it doesn't have a strong head, is nonetheless carbonated. You can see it if you swish it a bit, and feel it in your mouth. I still don't see how a week or two at cellar temps (as low as 8c, as you point out) would produce anything like that.

 

[Wortgames]

But correctly handled real ale, even if it doesn't have a strong head, is nonetheless carbonated. You can see it if you swish it a bit, and feel it in your mouth. I still don't see how a week or two at cellar temps (as low as 8c, as you point out) would produce anything like that.

I'm not an expert, but I'm guessing a wooden barrel with the right spile might handle a bit more than 4psi.

What about carbonating at 13-14C then serving at 10? I'm sure you could rustle up a bit of gas that way. I just think that trying to carbonate with a heater at something like 18C then putting it into fridge at 6C for serving might not work so well.

I also never suggested that this is a method for making totally authentic real ale - my intention was a cheap, kind of 'hybrid' draft system that would simply eliminate bottling for day-to-day beer consumption. If it takes a teaspoon of saflager to get some carbonation into it at your desired serving temp, then so be it (just look over your shoulder for CAMRA).

 

[randyrob]

Hey Dudes,

well i threw the heater belt idea out the window when i woke up in the morning and noticed the cube was quite swolen up so it didn't look like it even needed any help. as you've suggested worty this cube will
be getting served quite warm, as most of my existing fridges are filled with kegs i was just going to wack some ice around it the morning before to cool it slightly?

Rob.

 

[Wortgames]

Depending on your average temps over there you might even get away with leaving somewhere that gets a bit cool overnight, and doesn't get any heat on it during the day. The average temp should stay fairly constant.

But I don't think chilling it by a couple of degress for serving would present many problems.

 

[randyrob]

Check it, test sample fresh form the cube



mmmm.......yummy :chug:

Rob.

 

[Stuster]

That looks goooooooooood, RR.

I just started a mild which will be my guinea pig beer to test this out so I'm hoping to report back to this thread in two or three weeks time. How does the cube look? How long did it take to carb up?

 

[randyrob]

That looks goooooooooood, RR.

I just started a mild which will be my guinea pig beer to test this out so I'm hoping to report back to this thread in two or three weeks time. How does the cube look? How long did it take to carb up?

yeah i'm suprised it actually tastes alright quite young, not used to that!
i usually brew APA's but since this is/was going to get drunk fresh i kept the bitterness quite low (25 ibu's)

i left it in primary for 9 days then into the cask cube for two days, even after two days the cube has swolen up quite a bit. we'll see how it goes over the next couple of days. it's only got 55 grams of dextrose so i'm guessing it would have eaten that up already?

Rob.

 

[InCider]

Great stuff Rob - no luck needed!

I'm going to get a wort kit and make me a man-keg.

InCider.

Check it, test sample fresh form the cube

View attachment 12774

mmmm.......yummy :chug:

Rob.

 

[geoffi]

OK.

Two weeks ago I racked 10L or so of primed best bitter to a cube and left it to do its thing.

The cube has puffed up considerably. In fact the bottom has distorted so it doesn't sit square. Doesn't tip over, but it leans. (A bit like I do when I'm full of beer...)

Yesterday I put the cube in the fridge and cooled it down to 8c.

I've just poured a pint. The carbonation is quite light. Not much of a head.

But it tastes great.

I've been away for a week and I understand the nights have been cold, so maybe it needs a little more time to gas up. Or maybe it needs just a little more priming sugar.

But even as it is it's a perfectly respectable real ale.

Y'know what? I think I'll have another...

 

[randyrob]

Hey Fellas,

here's a really goofy action shot of me serving a real 'cube' ale



carbonation hasn't increased since my first test pour in an earlier post,

i'm finding the carbonation fine as long as you drink it fairly quick.
if you nurse it, it tends to get/look/feel really flat.

Rob.