Dispensing From Cubes

[randyrob]

mate, i couldn't agree more with everything you've said. you've really hit the nail on the head!

 

[Wortgames]

I was not trying to pee on your parade mate i just would hate to see any one of my bretheran get injured. But in saying all that its a good thing to get this rolling as i don't want to use up a keg on my english beer engine.

No worries Delboy, but the pressure vent I am talking about would release long before the cube got anywhere near bursting. Like I said, 4 or 5 psi would do it at a guess.

I don't think it would be any good with a beer engine - I think they will tend to dribble with any sort of positive pressure. For that you'd need an aspirator (but you could still use a cube of course).

The method I'm talking about relies on having a positive (albeit small) CO2 pressure in the cube to aid in dispensing, carbonation and preservation. As soon as you have any positive CO2 pressure then you really have a modern system rather than a traditional cask.

In a way it is half way between a cask and a keg system - higher pressure than a cask (which has none) but lower than a modern draught system.

 

[geoffi]

Funny how these things float into one's mind, then, voila, you discover others have been onto it for a while.

After reading the "Pale Ale" book (author's name escapes me) it occurred to me that I could use a cube as a cheap, quick and dirty real-ale cask. My understanding is that "real" real ale has no additional gas of any kind apart from that generated by the cask conditioning. So valves and so forth would be unnecessary, as long as the ale was consumed pretty quickly, so this would work perfectly well for a bbq or party or solo drunken bender.

One think I've noticed with using cubes for lagering and ccing, there can be a little leakage through the tap thread, so I'd use some teflon tape there.

As for where to get cubes, if you have to buy them, my recommendation is not to buy them from Kmart/Bunnings etc. Buy a wort kit. You get a cube plus some top-quality wort for an extra $20 or so.

 

[craigev]

guys, do you know if strong alcohol like wine can be kept in these cubes or picnic coolers ? since wine especially doesnt require carbonation then it could presumably just be kept in the cooler in the fridge without any co2 or spunding valve ? bit like those wine boxes you get with a plastic tap on that you serve from.

Funny how these things float into one's mind, then, voila, you discover others have been onto it for a while.

After reading the "Pale Ale" book (author's name escapes me) it occurred to me that I could use a cube as a cheap, quick and dirty real-ale cask. My understanding is that "real" real ale has no additional gas of any kind apart from that generated by the cask conditioning. So valves and so forth would be unnecessary, as long as the ale was consumed pretty quickly, so this would work perfectly well for a bbq or party or solo drunken bender.

One think I've noticed with using cubes for lagering and ccing, there can be a little leakage through the tap thread, so I'd use some teflon tape there.

As for where to get cubes, if you have to buy them, my recommendation is not to buy them from Kmart/Bunnings etc. Buy a wort kit. You get a cube plus some top-quality wort for an extra $20 or so.

 

[oldbugman]

The way that wine is served from a box/bladder "baggie" is that the bag can shrink as the wine leaves.

 

[Wortgames]

guys, do you know if strong alcohol like wine can be kept in these cubes or picnic coolers ? since wine especially doesnt require carbonation then it could presumably just be kept in the cooler in the fridge without any co2 or spunding valve ? bit like those wine boxes you get with a plastic tap on that you serve from.

Answered in your other thread

 

[delboy]

WORTGAMES ?? idea use a car valve barel in metal you can get them for 5 bucks at the tyre shop .
now remove valve fit metal cap .drill small hole in the side of the valve housing . slice a peice of silicone hose about 7mm and push over the valve casing to just cover the pin hole you just drilled .there is your PRV depending on how tight the silicon hose rubber is around your valve casing .to the amount of pressure it will release. (cheap easy ) and it works .

del

 

[Maxt]

As for the taps, you can get non screw in ones. One of my fermenters has this type with a threaded shank, and washers and a plastic locking nut from the inside. You just need to cut the right sized hole in your fermenter, and no amount of pressure would shift it, the cube would explode first.

 

[randyrob]

As for the taps, you can get non screw in ones. One of my fermenters has this type with a threaded shank, and washers and a plastic locking nut from the inside. You just need to cut the right sized hole in your fermenter, and no amount of pressure would shift it, the cube would explode first.

i've thought about this but don't think it would be a viable option for 2 reasons:
how are you going to get your arm into the tiny lid hole to hold and tighen the nut?
more room for nasties to hide?

Rob.

 

[Wortgames]

I don't think you need to use any special type of tap. Hopefully we can use a normal tap screwed into the normal tap fitting, or alternatively, lay the cube down and screw the tap into the lid (there's already a thread there, just needs to be drilled out carefully). You might need to use an extra rubber washer or something to help create a decent seal and keep the tap pointing down, but I don't think that's a major issue.

I'm currently trying to devise a (cheap) method of getting the gas into, and venting the excess pressure out of, the same type of thread as the tap uses.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

fwiw, the tap on the Rotokeg is fed from a tube thats sits on top of the beer in a float, so it gives you the clear beer from the top. But that might be too hard for home fabrication, as it depends on a reasonable amount of pressure to work, as opposed to a gravity fed tap.

 

[Shunty]

Dug out the lid and compressor this afternoon and dumped 10psi into a cube. It aint pretty;







and no, it's not a fish-eye lense :blink:

The tap held up ok, didn't seem to leak any air. one hell of a blast when i opened it, and the cube stayed a little distorted

 

[Wortgames]

Would you be happy to have it in the fridge at 5psi Shunty?

 

[Shunty]

Not sure yet, trying to find the other tyre inflator with the gauge that goes down that low. It was looking ok, then all of a sudden started deforming - hopefully 5psi will be lower than when it started to baloon

 

[v8r]

great job doing the experiment shunty! i too have been thinking of this recently as well.. would maybe one of the 10 or 15L cubes be a little stronger due to less sidewall? also, has anyone experiance using paintball co2 canisters for gassing? just throwing it out there....

 

[Doogiechap]

I don't think you need to use any special type of tap. Hopefully we can use a normal tap screwed into the normal tap fitting, or alternatively, lay the cube down and screw the tap into the lid (there's already a thread there, just needs to be drilled out carefully). You might need to use an extra rubber washer or something to help create a decent seal and keep the tap pointing down, but I don't think that's a major issue.

I'm currently trying to devise a (cheap) method of getting the gas into, and venting the excess pressure out of, the same type of thread as the tap uses.

The thread is 3/4 BSP. Sorry I can't help you on thread types of PRV's but I recently bought a 3/4 - 1/4 bsp adaptor, a 1/4 male to female mini ball valve, and a 1/4 inch to push fit (John Guest type beer line connector).
I pressureise my fermenter and cubes lightly to filter into my kegs. All up the fitings came to about $11. I'm guessing that you could add a 1/4 BSP tee fitting before the bal valve and adapt a PRV to that ?
I'll muster a piccy up in the near future if that helps
Cheers
Doug

 

[Wortgames]

Yep, well done Shunty for making the effort and posting the pics (didn't mean to sound rude before!)

v8r I think a smaller cube would definitely be stronger, but I don't think it really matters all that much - I reckon the trick here is to stick to around 5psi which will give us something like 1.8 volumes at 5C - this is a perfectly normal level of carbonation for a lot of ales, technically a bit on the low side for most lagers but still perfectly drinkable IMO. The point here is to make a cheap, easy dispense system that can do away with bottling for day-to-day drinking, and which will use minimal gas and create minimal problems when dispensing.

Paintball cylinders are very similar to Sodastream cylinders - so they are perfectly usable, but not necessarily easier (or cheaper to get parts for etc).

I haven't had any luck finding cheap, commercially available release valves - so I'm going to try and get hold of a stainless tyre valve tomorrow. I reckon with a bit of trial and error, we can come up with a cheap, consistent release valve by using a specific hole size and a specific type of rubber hose. I've got some offcuts here to try.

One thing I've noticed is that those CO2 inflators can vary enormously in price - has anyone found a really good deal on them?

 

[poppa joe]

Anyone tried the co2 Cream dispensers.? Or the small soda type thinggys...
Maybe the wife wouldnt miss it..?? Adapt one.
Cheers
PJ

 

[boingk]

I'm thinking of doing a brews secondary fermentation in a demijohn...a 5L glass jug basically. I'd stopper the top and leave it for a week as normal, and refridgerate 2 days before needed. Excellent party idea I think, just have it on the table and let people help themselves [glasses only, of course].

Another idea would be to do this same thing, but have a centre-holed bung in the top with a line going through the centre hole and to around 3 to 5cm off the bottom of the jug. Clamp the top of the line, then do secondary as normal in the vesel, possibly 10% more carbonation then normal so as to give it a bit of 'oomph' out of the system. Refridgerate after secondary for several days prior to use so the yeast settles and compacts. Unclamp line, and lead the end into a glass! Impromptu kegging setup for something like $20 - I'm definitely giving it a shot...I've been thinking about it for a while.

I'll be speaking the the homebrew store guy soon on the suitability of a demijohn for secondary fermentation [ie pressure resistance].

 

[Wortgames]

I'll be speaking the the homebrew store guy soon on the suitability of a demijohn for secondary fermentation [ie pressure resistance].

Demijohns have no pressure resistance at all - you might be able to squeeze a couple of psi into one but when it fails someone's going to get hurt. Plastic cubes aren't pressure vessels either, but burst plastic is a lot less likely to cause harm than burst glass.

I really wouldn't risk it boingk.