Different wort aeration kits

[Bribie G]

Quite a few British beers are re-aerated during the first part of the fermentation, for example Yorkshire bitters which are "pumped" into an upper chamber then allowed to drain back to the main fermentor, double dropped beers such as Brakspear and Burton Union beers.

There are even some coolships still around where the wort is cooled in big open pans with fans blowing on it.

 

[Mardoo]

Yep, that would be the O2 in action. Mind you even with good aeration 70 points in 3 days, you must have had a fair sized pitch.

Cheers Mark. Yeah, I figured pitch size was part of it, so I stopped oxygenating starters as a first step. This made some difference. Of course everything I am working from regarding yeast count of my starters is estimations (Mr. Malty, Yeastcalc, Braukaiser and the like) so I am flying a bit blind. At the moment I lack the ability to count yeast.

However, none of the calculators or charts I've seen take into account oxygenation of starters, so my guess was that I was ending up with more growth than predicted. Measurement of yeast solids - which is a blunt object at best - showed around 30% more growth than calculations estimated.

I'll take your advice about balancing O2 additions and pitch size according to strain. I'll still keep on with my no-O2 experiment (other than shaking) so as to refresh that reference point, as it's been awhile. And it's fun

 

[GalBrew]

I have also noticed with certain British strains I get very little esters when I do a starter and oxygenate (1469 notwithstanding).

 

[Mardoo]

Erm…that WAS 1469. Closest thing I have to a house yeast.

 

[GalBrew]

Erm…that WAS 1469. Closest thing I have to a house yeast.

That's unfortunate.

 

[DigitalGiraffe]

How many brews do you generally get out of the disposable O2 canisters?

 

[Bribie G]

English Special Bitter, OG 1045 pitched on Tuesday morning. 19 degrees.

It's Friday.

Already clearing from the top. This is absolutely frightening :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[Black n Tan]

Bribe I made your Yorkshire Bitter, hit final gravity within 2 days.

 

[Mardoo]

English Special Bitter, OG 1045 pitched on Tuesday morning. 19 degrees.

It's Friday.

Already clearing from the top. This is absolutely frightening :blink: :blink: :blink:

oxygen result 1.jpg

Oh **** yes. Never stopped freaking me out.

 

[danestead]

How many brews do you generally get out of the disposable O2 canisters?

I have a 40g Benzomatic Oxygen which has seen about 40 brews so far I would say. Still going. I use 1 minute per brew.

 

[Blind Dog]

Anyone got better results (taste wise only) with O2 with English yeasts/beers compared to shake / tip into FV from a great height style agitation? Would be interested to know

 

[Chridech]

New to brewing and admittedly have only used 1469 the once. After reading Bribie G extol the virtues of 1469 I pitched a healthy starter of 1469 into a TTL tribute wort. 0xygenated for 90 seconds with bottled 02 and a scintered stone with the aim of achieving 10ppm. The beer tastes good and is well attenuated but I don't have the estery flavours that I anticipated. Side by side with a bottle of the real TTL they are different, the real TTL having an additional flavour that might be the yeast, but my palate is not good enough to be certain. Like Mardoo I will need to brew this beer a couple of times with different oxygenation rates to get a feel for it. Hefeweizen banana and clove phenolics are said to benefit from under pitching and no oxygenation, aside from choice of ferment temp, perhaps English bitters and other styles with some yeast forward flavour do benefit from less oxygen. Perhaps all this enthusiasm for 02ing wort is driven by Lager breweries and 'clean' IPA styles. Interested to know if the commercial breweries are manipulating oxygenation rates for different styles of beer.

 

[wynnum1]

Is it possible to manufacture oxygen using Sodium percarbonate and would the oxygen produced have any off tastes the sodium percarbonate breaks down in water to release Hydrogen Peroxide, you would not put Hydrogen Peroxide in the wort but what about the oxygen that could be released .Potassium Iodide is a Catalyst that releases the oxygen and there are experiments that show this elephants toothpaste.Catalytic Decomposition of Hydrogen Peroxide by Potassium Iodide

 

[timmi9191]

I have a 40g Benzomatic Oxygen which has seen about 40 brews so far I would say. Still going. I use 1 minute per brew.

Ditto

 

[mofox1]

Is it possible to manufacture oxygen using Sodium percarbonate and would the oxygen produced have any off tastes the sodium percarbonate breaks down in water to release Hydrogen Peroxide, you would not put Hydrogen Peroxide in the wort but what about the oxygen that could be released .Potassium Iodide is a Catalyst that releases the oxygen and there are experiments that show this elephants toothpaste.Catalytic Decomposition of Hydrogen Peroxide by Potassium Iodide

Actually a couple of punctuation marks in there, not that it makes any more sense than usual.

Wynnum, stop eating the elephant's toothpaste.

 

[manticle]

Is it possible to manufacture oxygen using Sodium percarbonate and would the oxygen produced have any off tastes the sodium percarbonate breaks down in water to release Hydrogen Peroxide, you would not put Hydrogen Peroxide in the wort but what about the oxygen that could be released .Potassium Iodide is a Catalyst that releases the oxygen and there are experiments that show this elephants toothpaste.Catalytic Decomposition of Hydrogen Peroxide by Potassium Iodide

It's been discussed before (at least the hydrogen peroxide bit - I think even mentioned earlier in the thread). For a number of reasons, it's not viable.

How would you get the oxygen product in the wort from the hydrogen peroxide if not adding the solution to the wort anyway?

Buy cylinder of oxygen and appropriate accessories and add O2 to wort or make up sodium percarbonate, wait till it breaks down and somehow capture just the oxygen bit.

Not sure how you'd make that work and why it would be easier or more efficient if you could.

 

[MHB]

Potassium Iodide is a reportable chemical, it can be used in making amphetamines so its fairly closely monitored and you are very likely to get a visit from the boys in blue if they don't like your reasons for purchasing it.
The other point is that it would cost a lot more to set up an O2 generator than to buy the O2, I have thought about some of the medical type O2 concentrators, but anything that will do a good enough job looks like it will cost a couple of $K.

KISS
Mark

 

[wynnum1]

The oxygen is given off could be collected in a bag.
The oxygen on planes is chemicaly produced.

 

[MHB]

Hell you can get electrolytic units that break up water, lots of options, the simplest, cheapest, most reliable and available option is a bottle.

"The oxygen on planes is chemicaly produced." Really, frankly I doubt it having seen plenty of O2 bottles mounted on large aircraft, (the fighters at the air force base near here use liquid oxygen) there might be some emergency temporary O2 supplies that use chemical generators but its far from standard as far as I know.
Mark

 

[GalBrew]

New to brewing and admittedly have only used 1469 the once. After reading Bribie G extol the virtues of 1469 I pitched a healthy starter of 1469 into a TTL tribute wort. 0xygenated for 90 seconds with bottled 02 and a scintered stone with the aim of achieving 10ppm. The beer tastes good and is well attenuated but I don't have the estery flavours that I anticipated. Side by side with a bottle of the real TTL they are different, the real TTL having an additional flavour that might be the yeast, but my palate is not good enough to be certain. Like Mardoo I will need to brew this beer a couple of times with different oxygenation rates to get a feel for it. Hefeweizen banana and clove phenolics are said to benefit from under pitching and no oxygenation, aside from choice of ferment temp, perhaps English bitters and other styles with some yeast forward flavour do benefit from less oxygen. Perhaps all this enthusiasm for 02ing wort is driven by Lager breweries and 'clean' IPA styles. Interested to know if the commercial breweries are manipulating oxygenation rates for different styles of beer.

The last time I used 1469 (with starter) I oxygenated for 1 min at 1L/min. Tasted great, all of those yeast esters were there in abundance. I wouldn't go any further with the oxygen than that.