Dark Experiment

[Tanga]

So I have a Cooper dark ale kit. I also have one of those kilo tins of supermarket malt (ie the food supplement) which I've wanted to try for a while. Any one used it? What flavours does it have different to LDME? I have a kilo of that if I must, but...

I was thinking of steeping some specialty grains also. And hops. And my first lager yeast. I have no temp control, so a lager yeast that's not too fussy?

Recipe Idea

Cooper dark tin
1kg malt tin
200g crystal
100g carared
15g something or other hops (Hallertau?) @ 20 minutes - I want a spicy hop
15g same hops @ flameout

Brewed with a flavoursome lager yeast (not too attenuative). I'm not a big fan of pilsners or other lager I've tried. So far this looks good?
http://brewadelaide.com/retail/index.php?m...;products_id=22

The most 'ale-like'

Suggestions for hops and yeast appreciated. Do you guys think I should use LDME instead of the can?

 

[bignath]

So I have a Cooper dark ale kit. I also have one of those kilo tins of supermarket malt (ie the food supplement) which I've wanted to try for a while. Any one used it? What flavours does it have different to LDME? I have a kilo of that if I must, but...

I was thinking of steeping some specialty grains also. And hops. And my first lager yeast. I have no temp control, so a lager yeast that's not too fussy?

Recipe Idea

Cooper dark tin
1kg malt tin
200g crystal
100g carared
15g something or other hops (Hallertau?) @ 20 minutes - I want a spicy hop
15g same hops @ flameout

Brewed with a flavoursome lager yeast (not too attenuative). I'm not a big fan of pilsners or other lager I've tried. So far this looks good?
http://brewadelaide.com/retail/index.php?m...;products_id=22

The most 'ale-like'

Suggestions for hops and yeast appreciated. Do you guys think I should use LDME instead of the can?

Hey Tanga,

never brewed a dark before, but i have used the malt extract tins from the supermarkets. Saunders is it??

It certainly works as a malt addition to a recipe, and you can create some decent beer using it, but something has always told me when drinking them, "i reckon its different from when i did this recipe with LDME."...

If you've got the dry, i'd use that over the tin, but in a pinch the tin of malt extract will be fine.

 

[kocken42]

I'm not entirely sure, but does the supermarket malt specify what type of malt it is (malted barley, wheat, rye?).

It could be a mixture of many types.

 

[Tanga]

No idea. Barley would be my guess though. It is the Saunders though, like Nath said.

Nath, any luck putting your finger on how it was different? Sweeter? Heavier? I hoping that's it =). I think a dark would be the place for it =).

Any ideas on the hops and yeast?

 

[QldKev]

Not sure about the malt

For hops and yeast, what about some Brewers gold and some 1968

QldKev

 

[bignath]

Nath, any luck putting your finger on how it was different? Sweeter? Heavier? I hoping that's it =). I think a dark would be the place for it =).

It's been many years since i used it, but i seem to remember the brews being leaning more toward the sweeter end of the spectrum.
All i really remember with any certainty is thinking that the same recipe was much better with LDME.

Also, having said that, i've never brewed anything darker than an american amber so i'm far from experienced with whether it would suit your recipe.

Try and see mate, it might work for you.

 

[Tanga]

Hmm, now I've decided to spend on hops and specialty I might wait to try it.

Kev, isn't brewer's gold more of a bittering hops? Or can it give a great aroma too?

Plus the Fuller's yeast sounds like what I'm after, but will it work at lager temps? As stated, no temp control.

 

[QldKev]

Hmm, now I've decided to spend on hops and specialty I might wait to try it.

Kev, isn't brewer's gold more of a bittering hops? Or can it give a great aroma too?

Plus the Fuller's yeast sounds like what I'm after, but will it work at lager temps? As stated, no temp control.

Generally yes, it is only used for bittering as it doesn't have much aroma. In this case being a Dark ale it would allow flavour without overpowering the aroma. To me a Dark ale should be malt driven, have a balanced bitterness, some flavour with no too much aroma. If you prefer some aroma then maybe Challenger or Aussie Cluster, but don't go too heavy on the cluster.

QldKev

edit: see I've thrown another different one at you with the Aussie Cluster :lol:

 

[Tanga]

Well I've finalized the recipe.

1 tin Cooper Dark kit (with isohops)
1 tin Saunder's malt extract (1kg)
100g carared (steeped)
50g light chocolate (also steeped)
15g brewers gold @20min
15g @ flameout

Made up to 20L.
Yeast: Nottingham - probably brewed pretty cool.

Thanks to Kev for the hops suggestion. The write-up was intriguing. I'm looking forward to tasting this hop.
Thanks to Nath for info on Saunders - even if I did my own thing anyway, your advice gave me a better idea of potential outcomes.

What do folks think. Will this be balanced?

 

[Hatchy]

Ale yeast is fine at Adelaide winter ambient temperatures, definitely not ideal but my beers are turning out fine at ambient temperatures. I've got 1 fermenter in the fridge at the moment & 2 in the bath.

I'd use more choc but I like choc though.

I never liked the coopers dark kit, if I was brewing a dark kits & bits recipe now I'd use unhopped light extract with dark grains to get the colour. I only use 60 min hops for dark beers but that's a personal preference thing.

The offer is still there if you want to head round for an AG brewday.

 

[Tanga]

I see what you guys mean re:flavour vs aroma in dark beers. I agree that, even though I like the white rabbit dark, I prefer it when it's been sitting a while and the malt is the star. I don't want to add too much more bitterness though, as the hopped can made to 20L will be bitter enough (plus the choc will add some), I just want to fake the real hops vs isohops thing. How about just the 20 minute addition? From what Kev said the brewers gold hops is more about flavour than aroma.

 

[QldKev]

I see what you guys mean re:flavour vs aroma in dark beers. I agree that, even though I like the white rabbit dark, I prefer it when it's been sitting a while and the malt is the star. I don't want to add too much more bitterness though, as the hopped can made to 20L will be bitter enough (plus the choc will add some), I just want to fake the real hops vs isohops thing. How about just the 20 minute addition? From what Kev said the brewers gold hops is more about flavour than aroma.

Yep, that's why I picked the Brewers gold for the job. I would go the 20min, but no the flameout addition. Also with the Brewers gold the AA% is under 5% so it shouldn't add too much bitterness per weight.

Go me thinking if I should push one through before this weather warms up.

QldKev

 

[Tanga]

Mine's going down as soon as my hops and yeast arrive (tomorrow I hope). Let me know what you put down.

 

[mickos]

Love the sound of using the saunders malt. I grew up on it, sucking it off a spoon. Loved it. Hope your brew turns out wicked. I just put down a real ale with caramalt in it. Fermenting away nicely. Good luck.
Love the white rabbit too

 

[Tanga]

Yeah, it smells and tastes great. I think it would work well in a dark. At least I hope some of that smooth graininess comes through. Do you have temp control Mick? Which ale yeast?

Kev, yeah good hops suggestion. It sounds like a versatile and tasty beast.

 

[mickos]

I do have heat belt, dont have to use too much. Fermenter wrapped with towels keeping it between 18 and 20. Used safale us05 yeast

 

[Tanga]

So I now have a mixed bag of 100g light choc, and 200g each of carared and crystal. Too much specialty grain for 20L? Should I half it? Bitter more to counteract the sweetness? Add some light malt?

 

[C-MOR]

So I now have a mixed bag of 100g light choc, and 200g each of carared and crystal. Too much specialty grain for 20L? Should I half it? Bitter more to counteract the sweetness? Add some light malt?

i would not halve the steeping grains. Ive use light chocolate in coopers dark a number of times before, it comes out quite roasty and quite bitter. Use all the caras to round the beer and provide more depth.

one concession, ive not used your yeast, mostly 1056 and a couple of time with the kit yeast

 

[Tanga]

Thanks dude. That's the info I need. I just found:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=730

Almost the same as mine made to 25L. I will make mine to 24.

 

[Tanga]

My pet hate is finding one of these threads without a followup so here it is.

Used all the grains and the northern-brewer. The first couple of weeks after bottling I was a sad panda, too bitter and piney / resinous from the hops and choc. Luckily I got crook and had to leave it another couple of weeks. I have just retasted it. The malt is coming through more now, and thus more balanced. More of a stout in flavour (bitter and heavy), but it really works. Close enough to call it a Coopers Extra-Stout clone. With the Cooper's yeast it'd be bang on.

*pours herself another glass*