Crown Urn BIAB or Grainfather

[Liam_snorkel]

nothing wrong with BIAB in an urn (it's what I run) - but the grainfather is good bling for the buck. If I had a spare grand I'd get one.

 

[panzerd18]

Hi all, after experimenting with a few kits, I really want to try some all grain brews. I have decided I can go down two roads. Originally I was set to get a 40L Crown Urn and use it for BIAB. However with the Grainfather released I could eventually afford it sometime next year.

Although the Grainfather will work out double the cost after I get the Urn, plate chiller, would it be worth the wait?

Is anyone able to tell me the limitations of BIAB on a Crown Urn and some things the Grainfather can do, that I wouldn't be able to do on a Crown Urn?

 

[JDW81]

There are heaps of threads on both, here are just 2:

Grain father

BIAB

These should give you an idea of the pros ad cons of each.


JD

 

[taztiger]

I've been BAIB for a couple of years with the Crown urn, mostly no chill. Contemplating buying a Grainfather and using my urn just for sparge water for sheer convenience of the system, temperature control, chiller supplied etc. I had already started accumulating gear to modify my urn to get some of these features but the Grainfather seems like an easier solution by the time you buy bits and pieces and assemble. My Urn and Bag have served me well but i think the Grainfather will be the next step for me.
cheers
Taztiger

 

[HBHB]

If the $ are the driving factor, go the Crown Urn first and once the wallet is a little fatter, you could upgrade while using the crown urn for sparge water etc.

BIAB is cheap, effective and a great way to get into AG brewing. I'll certainly be keeping my various BIAB rigs for a rainy day when I want to run multiple brews at the same time.

If it gets you there quicker.....go the urn.

If efficiency is an issue and you're time poor and have very limited space, then go the GF. They both have positives and negatives with the GF unit having a few less negatives.

 

[jonnir]

Its a funny thing. I went straight for 3v but in essence if i wanted to brew 2 x different brews at the same time I've got 2 Biab Rigs at my disposal! Never thought of it that way but its pretty cool!

What's even better is that I got a bigger pot recently that's going to be used for double batch boils. That's 3 x biab rigs i've got now! So cool

 

[real_beer]

You should also take into account if you going to recirculate the BIAB system or build a hoist for draining the bag, whether basic or more sturdy. All the fittings and bits and pieces add up quickly if you have to buy them at a retail level. If I was just getting into the hobby now I'd sit in on a few brew days or watch lots of YouTube vids, then visit the stores that sell the automatic system when they show them being used, most do. I can say now that if I was going down the automatic path I wouldn't build it myself again if saving money was my main motive. The manufactured units might seem expensive but they turn out to be great value when the initial shock of their price wears off and are examined more closely, plus the manufactures and suppliers seem more than happy to address any problems a customer has.

You might as well know now that if you get bitten by the all grain bug your wallet is also going to be bitten for many years to come. So find a retail supplier you trust and give him your credit cards so you'll be able to get any equipment and supplies you may, or may not need instantly.

Your probably not going to be happy until you have:
Your own grain mill
2 to 20.......... 30 ...........? Cornelius Kegs.
CO2 Bottle or 6.
1 to ? tap Kegerator.
A host of temperature controllers.
Heating belts and pads.
Basic followed by high-tech thermometers.
1 to ? Stainless Steel Conical Fermenter's.
Multiple fridges or even a cold room.
Transfer & reticulation pumps.
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Plastic bins followed by Silo Storage for your grains.[/SIZE]
Dedicated brew shed and bar complete with its own toilet facilities to save the missus floor, wall, and ceiling cleaning duties in the house.
Backyard Hop Farm ......... followed by an apple orchard for your cider ..............and bees for your meads.
Smoke-house, dehydrators.
A Vacuum Sealer or ?
Most brewing gadgets and equipment you see other people are selling day to day on the net or forums.
Undertake world tours to discover the subtle nuances needed to apply to a particular style of beer you wish to create.
etc. ......etc. ....... etc.

All leading to the eventual conclusion of you building your[SIZE=13.63636302948px] own Craft Brewery![/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]Then you can:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]​Start [/SIZE]supplying your local restaurants with kegs of your loving creations.
Buy a high speed bottling and labelling machine for nation-wide distribution.
Add a restaurant of your own and create many new jobs in the process.
Book gigs on 'Basic Brewing Radio', 'BeerSmith Home Brewing', 'The Brewing Network', podcasts.
Start your own podcast, brewing software offering, or on-line brew shop.

Make sure you choose your partner wisely because they'll have to live with a truly focused and obsessed lunatic for many years to come ........... maybe even the rest of their life!

:icon_cheers:

 

[taztiger]

Apart from the last paragraph, if there were tick boxes on that list I'd have a whole lot of ticks. It's a slippery slope!!

 

[panzerd18]

Thanks all so much for your help. I'm in two minds, because Grain and Grape have a 10-20% off special at the moment, so I could pick up a lot of equipment in regards to BIAB.

The special ends on Saturday.

 

[tavas]

Go BIAB now.

Simpler, less variables to worry about and you will be able to on sell the gear (or re utilise it)at a later stage when you decide you want to upgrade. By then you will have an idea of what size you want, and how how much involvement which may dictate a completely different system to these two (i.e. 3V, HERMS, RIMS).

Neither BIAB nor Grainfather will make better beer compared to the other. That will depend on your brewing ability.

Do not discount the fact that all grain can take up to 5 hours depending on clean up etc, so you might find after a couple of brews that its not for you.

 

[Bribie G]

BIAB and other systems such as Braumeister or HERMS are only one stage in the grain to brain conveyor belt. Namely, the wort production stage. One of the most awful infected beers I have ever tasted was from a Braumeister and one of the best was from an extract brewer. This year in the NSW State comp the best India Pale Ale and the best American Pale Ale were from a brewer using a Big W stockpot.

A lot of brewers are into the tech side of things and their lives revolve around PIDs and Arduinos, others love their can opener and as we speak someone somewhere is just sitting with an ale and gazing lovingly on their HERMS or RIMS chugging away.

Myself, I'm rusted-on BIAB and no interest in changing - it's a great way to do all grain wort and if you decide later to move sideways into another method of wort production then you haven't invested too much in kit.

 

[Guysmiley54]

I agree with Tavas.

If you haven't brewed all grain beer before, BIAB is a great way to experience the process in a simple inexpensive fashion. I recently designed and built (or rather had the guy at my LHBS build!) an ideal 2V recirculating rig which suits my needs for half of the price of a Grainfather. 4 years experience with BIAB taught me how to make beer and helped me to understand what processes are important to me in refining and improving my technique.

Having said all of that... If money is not an issue (resale should be decent for a while anyway?) the Grainfather looks like the entry level system to beat!

 

[Cocko]

^^ This.

precisely.


IMO.

 

[moodgett]

Ive slipped down my slope of extract with steeping grains and partial mashes relatively quickly. All done on stovetop as many others start out. Ive decided (with the financial ministers support) on making the splurge to a grainfather for my transition to all grain. Maybe try out partial mashing on a stovetop to get a good feel for mashing in to see the extra parts of the process you will have to learn. Bribie has a great guide on pimping out a kit/extract with partial mash. That way you can learn the process before outlaying a whole lot of cash

 

[panzerd18]

Hmm, can't seem to make up my mind.

The Crown Urn BIAB will be cheaper, but the Grainfather is a turn key system straight out of the box....

 

[moodgett]

Grainfather is a turn key system straight out of the box....

that's what sold me

 

[tavas]

You will still need to learn about mashing and mash profiles with either.

Either will work. One is cheaper than the other. If you can afford it and don't think you will want to upgrade later, then go the GF. If money's tight then go BIAB and get the GF later. Its that simple. This isn't a technical question, its a financial one.

Neither will make the beer for you. Neither will make better beer. YOU make the beer.

Only 2 things make better beer - brewing without pants and using a red bucket. These have been proven on this forum time after time.

 

[taztiger]

I notice they have made their Oz site live now. Pity it's not free shipping for us like the Kiwis when spending over $100. Better for the local brew shops anyway i suppose.

 

[real_beer]

I notice they have made their Oz site live now. Pity it's not free shipping for us like the Kiwis when spending over $100. Better for the local brew shops anyway i suppose.

You must look at the big picture and take into account that there's only about 10 Kiwi's left in New Zealand, so even if they all bought one they wouldn't be out much money with free delivery.

 

[Bribie G]

Hmm, can't seem to make up my mind.

The Crown Urn BIAB will be cheaper, but the Grainfather is a turn key system straight out of the box....

Crown is a turn key system as well, provided you have pre-armed yourself with a bag and a thermometer. Cake rack helps as well.