Coopers Dark Ale

[guerd87]

Hi everyone, Looking to do something I havnt done before: Dark Ale with hops

My last batch was quote good using a Real Ale kit and some LME and Dextrose, 40g of Amarillo dry hopped.

I want to move up a level and get into some real hopping Here is a recipe I have put together while doing lots and LOTS of searching around. Any comments?

Coopers Dark Ale Tin
500g Light DME
500g Dark DME
50g Dark Brown Sugar

30g Fuggles 20mins
20g Fuggles 10mins

Procedure
Add 1/3 Coopers tin, 1/2 Each DME to 5l Boil.
Add Dark Brown Suger
Add Fuggles for 20mins
Add Fuggles for 10mins
Strain into fermenter with rest of ingredients and top up to 23l

Ferment @ 18-20 for 7 days or until finished

According to spreadsheets, here is what I will have:
OG: 1.044
FG: 1.012
IBU: 40.6
EBC: 45.94
%: 4.7 after Bottling

It also mentions Calculated IBU, which is 34.9? Which do you go by?

Im by no means experienced and am quite new to all this. Does this recipe sound about right or do the figures look ok for a general Dark Ale?

I have seen people mentioning different Hops, and I guess its all about your tastes. The main few that keep popping up for this kind of beer are Fuggles, Goldings or Willamette.

Simple Newbie Questions:
For the boil, do they usually mean boil, as in 100c, or should Temperature be controlled at a certain temp?
Should the boil be cooled before adding to the fermenter?
Is fuggles right for this beer? Are the amounts and times ok?

I havnt mentioned yeast. 18-20c is currently the temperature which I can get consistent until I get my fridge setup. What yeast should I be looking to use and will I need a starter or just pitch in the fermenter?

Thanks for looking,
John

 

[keifer33]

Looks alright. My only real comment would be on your procedure. For the boil I would just do 5lts and 500g of dry malt as this will put you at almost spot on the BG 1.040 (Optimum for hop extraction) and will also save you half poring cans etc. Once the boil is over just combine as you have been.

The boil is actually a boil, you don't want a harsh boil but a nice rolling boil to keep it consistent.

As far as cooling goes I find that dropping the pot with lid into the sink full of cold water and ice blocks/esky blocks can cool it down and everyone has it.

Yeast you could go with S-04 as a simple dry yeast and suits the style.

 

[MaltyHops]

Hi everyone, Looking to do something I havnt done before: Dark Ale with hops
...
Thanks for looking,
John

I'm only a little bit less new newbie myself but I've now done batch #10 using
kits and extracts (K&E) and think I've learnt enough to be able to help with some
things.

It also mentions Calculated IBU, which is 34.9? Which do you go by?

Perception of bitterness can be reduced by sweetness. Some of the DME added is
not fermentable and will remain in the final beer as a complex sugar adding to the
sweetness. The spreadsheet (by ianh) takes this into account to arrive at the 34.9
figure.

Add 1/3 Coopers tin, 1/2 Each DME to 5l Boil ...

I don't reckon you need to use as much as 5L - the more liquid you boil up,
the longer/harder it will be to cool down to pitching temperature.

Strain into fermenter with rest of ingredients and top up to 23l

I think most people using K&E dont bother straining - only if using some grain
(caramalt) steeping that straining is required. The hops will eventually settle out
with the yeast trub anyway and if the hops is strained out, the flavour and aroma
benefits of the hops will be missed out.

For the boil, do they usually mean boil, as in 100c, or should Temperature be
controlled at a certain temp?

When using K&E, boiling isn't really necessary (esp. if you keep things really
sanitary) since boiling is not really going to change the can concentrate but if
adding things like DME and sugar, it might be a good idea to boil for a little
while to kill off any bugs that might be there. What I've been doing is boil about
a litre of water in a big pot, flame off, add can contents and anything else,
back on flame and stir to dissolve fully, then heat until around 80C or starts
to boil, flame out with pot lid on and leave for a few minutes (this should be
enough for sterilising).

Then I put about 10L of water (chilled preferably) into my fermenter while trying
to agitate the water to encourage oxygenating the water. Then tip the kit mix
into the fermenter and sloshing as much as possible while tipping to oxygenate
(oxygen in the wort helps yeast growth so I've read). Then top up with more
chilled water as required, stir it all up well - thisi is a good time to take a sample
for measuring the original gravity.

Is fuggles right for this beer? Are the amounts and times ok?

Fuggles is a low alpha acid hop (low bitterness, plenty of hops descriptions on the
web, like this one) web, like this one) so it would be a waste to use it for bittering (boiling hops for
longer periods like 30 - 40 minutes) the Dark Ale is pre-bittered anyway so adding
more bitterness may not be needed.

It would be better to use some of the Fuggles for flavouring (by boiling for a
shorter period like 10 - 15 mins) and some for aroma by "dry-hopping" (when
primary fermentation starts to show signs of slowing down, put the Fuggles
in about 100mL of boiling water for about a minute, then add to the brew.

T.

 

[guerd87]

Wow, thanks. Some great info there

I am about ready to head down to the LHBS and pickup some supplies. Ive found he is ok for getting supplies but very rude and not interested at all when it comes to helping me out. Last time I was thinking of using a different yeast and asked him for some advice and temperature selection and he just said "Use the kit yeast and read the instructions" Yeah...thanks.

Revised Recipe:

Coopers Dark Ale
500g LDME
500g DDME
50g DB Sugar

30g Fuggles 15min
20g Fuggles dry hop

Being that Ive never done a boil before with hops and never used Fuggles, If I like what I get I can only improve on it later

Ill get some S-04 yeast, Done some more searching and seems either S-04 or Nottingham is the best. Unless anyone else has any more comments on the hops time/weights I will be putting this down on Friday. I ferment in my Wardrobe right now and usually is around 19-20c constant but if it happens to get a bit hotter during the days (weather is pretty good down here now) I will cover with a damp towel and pray it doesnt rise. Moving house in 6 weeks and have the budget approved for a nice beer/drinks fridge that can double as fermenting fridge with controller.

John

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I've used Nottingham extensively, but for my dark ale (AG recipe in the db), I used Windsor yeast (another dry yeast), as I didn't want my body to be too thin, alcohol too high or the beer to dry. It worked a treat. ABV was about 4%, despite the recipe db's calculation.

Also chucked in Cherry Syrup from a jar of ALDI morello cherries (and "dry hopped" the cherries in a hop bag) and 250g of really good quality honey (I can't remember which variety), which really smoothed out the taste.

According to the recipe, I used Amarillo and EKG for bittering and flavour and Nelson Sauvin for Aroma. You'd probably scale back the bittering as you are using hopped extract, but otherwise, it would work for you.

This was a fantastic drop for me. Well not so much for me, as I barely got the chance to drink it - others drank it on behalf of me. I have some dark beer drinker friends and rellies, who don't like it too bitter (like a stout), so this was eagerly quaffed.

OP - well done for trying new stuff. Next you'll be buying unhopped goo (like I did) and doing all this. Having complete control over hopping makes the world of difference to the beer.


Goomba

 

[guerd87]

Goomba: Thanks for that, I like trying new stuff and really want to improve myself. I mean I love the taste of my current beers and could drink them for another few batches, but wheres the fun in that? I can revisit them down the track and make some more improvements for a nice simple party beer.

Went shopping the other day and picked my ingredients, seemed a bit expensive but I dont have anywhere to compare it to.

1.7kg Dark Ale Tin
500g LDME
500g DDME
50g Fuggles Pellets
S-04 yeast

$39.80?

I have been meaning to get some new sanitiser as the stuff I use right now I feel isnt correct. Its a 1 step wash/sanitiser that sort of looks like dishwasher powder :\ I want to get some starsen, but it hell expensive. I have heard that you can get the same stuff from hospitality suppliers in bulk. They use it to sanitise the kegs at pubs etc. so I will have a look into that today.

Maltyhops: As for the hops, should I get a hop bag? Last time I just put them straight in the fermenter - didnt notice any blockages when filling bottles, or is just good practice? I will boil them like you suggest this time.

John

 

[MaltyHops]

Maltyhops: As for the hops, should I get a hop bag? Last time I just put them straight
in the fermenter - didnt notice any blockages when filling bottles, or is just good practice?
I will boil them like you suggest this time.

It might be good in your situation (assuming you bottle straight from the fermenter)
- others would be better to advice on this. I normally just put hops pellets in hot water
and straight into the fermenter. I've been transferring my brews into a cube after
primary fermentation has slowed to a near stop to continue fermenting and then chilling
in fridge before priming/bottling. This really settles the beer really clear (and allows my
fermenter to be used for the next batch). Even in your case, hops pellets will break up
and eventually mix in with the yeast trub anyway so it shouldn't add to any blockage
problems (unless you use whole hops flowers).

Went shopping the other day and picked my ingredients, seemed a bit expensive ...

Perhaps a few dollars more than normal prices but looks reasonable. Once you have
bought a particular yeast once, you could save $$$ on it by saving it from a brew
for subsequent re-use - look for the link titled "Separating Yeast From Hops" from
the PREPARATION set of links to new brewer questions. And you can improvise
and use other containers like small softdrink bottles - just clean/sanitise them well
and be aware of the potential hazard though - see this post from the Starting Wyeast
thread.

Tom.

 

[guerd87]

Ok, Im all set and ready to go. Ended up buying Brewcraft no Rinse as the other places I went to couldn't really tell me much about the product they were trying to sell me. I have heard that its the goods - time will tell I guess

Brewing night is tonight - Kids in bed and misses is out with the girls - kitchen is mine!

Quick Question: What should I do with the Coopers Kit Yeast? Keep it in the fridge for some other time/project or just throw it out?

 

[MaltyHops]

Ok, Im all set and ready to go. Ended up buying Brewcraft no Rinse as the other places I went to couldn't really tell me much about the product they were trying to sell me. I have heard that its the goods - time will tell I guess

Brewing night is tonight - Kids in bed and misses is out with the girls - kitchen is mine!

Quick Question: What should I do with the Coopers Kit Yeast? Keep it in the fridge for some other time/project or just throw it out?

The main ingredient in Brewcraft no Rinse seems to be Sodium Percarbonate and not sure
how much you paid for it but note that you can get a kilo of it in pure form for about $8 from
the GnG site sponsor - a kilo is probably good for about a year's brewing cleaning.

Note also that Sod.Perc. is more of a gunk remover (soaking) and people (including me) use
it in addition with some thing like phosphoric acid (again, GnG has pure Phos acid and CB has
StarSan, which is 75% phos acid). I often put something like 6 - 8 drops of the pure acid
into 500mL, shake well, and use it for all sorts of sanitising like the fermenter after sod.perc
(apparently the acid and perc react to get rid of each other thoroughly), taps, tubes, spoons,
bottles, airlock, ... Just make sure you don't get any splashed into your eyes.

Keep the yeast in the fridge - I haven't done it yet but I've read that it makes good nutrients
for growing yeast like in a starter - boil the old yeast to kill them and then add to a mini amount
of wort used to grow/step up yeast that you're going to use for brewing (but that's a story for
another day).

Good luck with the brewing - hope it goes smoothly.

T.

 

[guerd87]

I paid $9 for 500ml. I think it was on special though as it was 2 x 250ml bottles packaged together. - they may have changed or we are thinking of different items. Just checked the bottle and it has this.

CONTAINS: Hydrogen Peroxide 3%, Silver Ions, Distilled Water

 

[MaltyHops]

I paid $9 for 500ml. I think it was on special though as it was 2 x 250ml bottles packaged together. - they may have changed or we are thinking of different items. Just checked the bottle and it has this.

CONTAINS: Hydrogen Peroxide 3%, Silver Ions, Distilled Water

Hmmm... maybe different item - search for "Brewcraft no Rinse" returned a powder
item. Are you supposed to use the stuff diluted with water (ie. it's a concentrate)
or as is? As is sounds uneconomical. With the sod.perc powder, the recommended
dose is 40g to make 30L for soaking stuff - so 1kg is enough for 25 times that,
which would involve quite a bit of brewing .

And after soaking a fermenter, I often use the sod.per water again to soak bottles
Ive been getting from a recycling depot which often have quite a lot of gunk in them,
ie. can re-use.

T.

 

[guerd87]

On the bottle it notes being made by Brewcraft, but is actually called Brewshield Sanitiser

From Label:

USE: To Sanitise brewing equipment.
DIRECTIONS: Ensure all equipment is cleaned before sanitising. Dilute by adding 30ml Brewshield Sanitiser to 1l Water. Fill a spray bottle with the diluted mix and saturate equipment coming into contact with brew.

Goes on about contents and first aid after that but thats it.

So my 500ml is enough for around 16l of sanitiser. Using the method described with the spray bottle it will last a while, but I will prob also make 1l of it up in the fermenter and swirl it around etc.

Now that you look at these figures, I should have just bought Starsan at 1.5ml per L - will end up saving money in the long run. Will know for next time I need some.

Note - Usually pays to do double the research you think you need and listen to what everyone else is using - Its for a reason

 

[RobH]

A few notes from another Kits'n'bits brewer ... I just kegged a Coopers Dark a week ago - I also brewed it with Safale S-04 (a note about the yeast in a moment).

My recipe/method was:
* Steep 100gms Roasted Barley in 7 litres for 30 mins (15 litre stock pot)
* Add 700gms of Light DME & bring to boil, boil for a few mins
* Flame out & add remainder of DME (300gms) + tin of Coopers Dark (didn't want to add any hops - was after a malty/roasted flavour)
* Cool it off in the sink (3o mins or so, changing the ink water a few times)
* Top up stock pot with cool water & tip it into fermenter
* Top up fermenter with cool water up to 22 litres
* Temp was about 25-26c so I sprinkled on the S-04 & put the lid on
* Fermentation took about 2-3 days and was at around 21-22 degrees celcius (don't have physical access to my fermenter fridge - otherwise I would have done it at 18 deg)

Now about the S-04 yeast - I have read that if you ferment it at higher temps that you may encounter bubble-gum like flavours - sad to say that in my brew I can detect a hint of that (could it just be the power of suggestion?) - more so when I was kegging it, and much less now it is chilled and gassed up. Aside from that, I get a really nice roasted flavour & hints of cocoa (imagine more of a bitter chocolate than a sweet one) - have only had a couple of glasses ofit since kegging, but I rekon it will go great with a slice of rich dark chocolate cake!

 

[guerd87]

RobH - Sounds very nice I will watch out for that bubblegum taste, now that I know about it I could be biased though, so I will get some mates to taste if I have suspicions

Well Im all finished up - after doing my first boil I now know I need a bigger stockpot. My general purpose pot was nearly overflowing with 5l

All in all a good session though, had fun and have never smelt so much aroma coming out of the kitchen before. With the DME and the hops boiling away (and the hint of DarkBS) was amazing!

OG came out at 1.041 @ 23L
Pitching temp was 21c - nearly spot on

New yeast was another great flavour around tonight. This is my first time using different yeast than a kit - smells so much fresher and stronger, those 11.5g packets are so much bigger then the 7g Coopers one - Maybe I shouldnt have pitched all of it ^_^

So, took some pics if anyone is interested. Took them when I had some spare time on my hands, was concentrating alot though:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/gue...-2010/image.jpg <-- Boil - the fuggles make it appear very green/brown - smell was great
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/gue...2010/image2.jpg <-- Carrying on the tradition - one of my first brews that was a bit under carbed and gave less head then..well..you know....
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/gue...2010/image1.jpg <-- Some ingredients
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/gue...2010/image3.jpg <-- High tech fermenterator. Hot water for nights, cold water for days.

Will keep updated with progress/outcomes

John

 

[keifer33]

Looks good mate, that aroma of malt and hops and grain is really something isnt it?. Stinks out my place for hours but the missus is beginning to like it which is always a plus. The yeast makes huge improvements over the kit and all of it is good so dont hold back. On getting a bigger pot dooooo it, will be a step up to when you start bigger boils for extracts and partials and maybe even all grain eventually. I have made quick steps up and just bought a 20lt pot for my biab all grain venture after using an 8 and 12 for extracts and partials respectively. Grab a small one as its easier to work with and then when the time comes grab a 20lt (or 19lt from BigW).

Keep us updated will be interested to see how it turns out.

 

[guerd87]

Keifer33, the smell of the boil was intense - I was on a high

Wort is going strong, I placed some frozen coke bottles in the trough today and covered with a blanket, been constant pretty much all day. It is a bit annoying removing the blanket to check the temp when watching it, so I decided to do something about it.

Grabbed some parts from the shed and wrote some code up:

Arduino
10k Thermistor
10k Resistor
16x2 LCD

Heres 2 pics. When I get my fermenterator going I am going to build the control box based on this setup. Adjustable temp control of the fan set by trimpot adjustment. Digital temperature readout of Wort, ambient and maybe Ice temp aswell. I love playing with Arduino's, they are so simple and cheap to build. The one pictured was my first one I got, now I flash them and build them myself for a couple of $$ each

Tomorrow I will hopefully add a Data Logger to it and record the temperature every 30mins apart - be good to look back on.

 

[keifer33]

Sweet as idea, if only I remembered my breadboard skills. You'll be investing in a sensor to go straight into the wort before you know it.

 

[guerd87]

Fermentation went good, added hops after 4 days, it was all finished after 5, bottled on day 6.

FG @ 18c : 1012 solid for 2 1/2 days

Using Coopers PET bottles and Carb Drops, let them now sit for a few weeks in similar temperatures and then taste test time

 

[juzz1981]

Wow, thanks. Some great info there

I am about ready to head down to the LHBS and pickup some supplies. Ive found he is ok for getting supplies but very rude and not interested at all when it comes to helping me out. Last time I was thinking of using a different yeast and asked him for some advice and temperature selection and he just said "Use the kit yeast and read the instructions" Yeah...thanks.

Revised Recipe:

Coopers Dark Ale
500g LDME
500g DDME
50g DB Sugar

30g Fuggles 15min
20g Fuggles dry hop

Being that Ive never done a boil before with hops and never used Fuggles, If I like what I get I can only improve on it later

Ill get some S-04 yeast, Done some more searching and seems either S-04 or Nottingham is the best. Unless anyone else has any more comments on the hops time/weights I will be putting this down on Friday. I ferment in my Wardrobe right now and usually is around 19-20c constant but if it happens to get a bit hotter during the days (weather is pretty good down here now) I will cover with a damp towel and pray it doesnt rise. Moving house in 6 weeks and have the budget approved for a nice beer/drinks fridge that can double as fermenting fridge with controller.

John

I've just finished fementing a stout that i made up (AG though) and used Wyeast 1056 as i had tons of it in the fridge, it attenuated out and seems to fit the bill ... i have used Nottingham also and it was good