Continuing Rant Thread - Get it Off Ya Chest here

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quote name="Airgead" post="1196403" timestamp="1404880081" date="Today, 02:28 PM"]
And which our government refuses to issue. You can only apply for refugee status once you are on shore. They don't give out refugee visas offshore and they refuse any other sort of visa in hotspots

Cheers
Dave[/quote]
May be of interest to you.

Outcomes of 2012–13 programme

In 2012–13, the Humanitarian Programme was increased to 20 000 places from 13 750 places in 2011–12. A total of 20 019 visas were granted under the Humanitarian Programme, of which 12 515 visas were granted under the offshore component and 7504 visas were granted under the onshore component. See the tables below for further details on the 2012–13 programme outcomes.

2014-07-09-17-27-16.png
 
wide eyed and legless said:
The 150 or so Australian Jihadists fighting for Isis even taking part in executions I find more disturbing than illegal immigrants, who has got into their heads, I went into a Hal Hal butchers once and a little kid pointed at me and started shouting infidel he wouldn't have even been 5 years old so what is said about us in there households, I was only in there to get some goats liver not to have my beliefs questioned.
I also wonder if an Aussie jihadi gets his legs blown off, does he come back here and get his free medical attention and prosthetic legs before going on benefits.
His passport will be canceled. Hopefully. **** his legless radicalized arse. (his not yours..)

At the very least, the penalty under the constitution for an Australian citizen engaging in a civil war is up to 25 years in the slammer. I think.
 
Refugee council website said:
Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are not acting illegally. The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum.
Point of entry and means of arrival are insignificant.
 
wide eyed and legless said:
The 150 or so Australian Jihadists fighting for Isis even taking part in executions I find more disturbing than illegal immigrants, who has got into their heads, I went into a Hal Hal butchers once and a little kid pointed at me and started shouting infidel he wouldn't have even been 5 years old so what is said about us in there households, I was only in there to get some goats liver not to have my beliefs questioned.
I also wonder if an Aussie jihadi gets his legs blown off, does he come back here and get his free medical attention and prosthetic legs before going on benefits.
I went to a halal butcher every week for about 7 years. No-one ever screamed at me, looked down on me or did anything other than fill my order quietly, politely and bid me good day. The only exception being the butcher who wanted to chat about different methods of cooking lamb and the lady who asked if one of my piercings hurt because she was considering getting the same one. I wouldn't be judging an entire culture set on the ramblings of a 5 year old.
 
Ya think?
I am aware that it's not illegal but
It would seem the logical place to go if you wanted to claim asylum is the place where the authorities will take your claim, rather than a beach.
unless of course you'd rather hide in society than gain legitimate residency.
 
So you're aware that it's not illegal but you support treating these people like criminals because their actions don't align with what you see as best course of action?
 
Ever heard the term 'by any means necessary'? You accept that arriving by boat is not illegal under un convention if seeking asylum but still think they've gone about it without really thinking it through? Are they here to steal our dole payments? Wives? Mules? Christmas presents?

Of course it needs some kind of systematic monitoring but settling people in 3rd world countries that have the same kinds of human rights abuses while making those asylum seekers into scapegoats is so bizarrely wrong, I struggle to believe any intelligent adult could fail to see it as anything but a diversionary tactic.

Intercepting them to return them to country of origin on the quiet is mind boggling.
 
I don't even know where to start. I tend to bow out of this discussion every time the issue of asylum seekers comes up because unlike most of you armchair warriors, I've worked with them both as clients and as staff over the years. You reference to our humanitarian visa numbers is a bit of a red herring Beertard.

Those visa's are give to those who have been given Refugee status already. Lets be clear on one thing first. Reguee and Asylum seeker are very different things.

To get one of those visa's you are talking about, you need to go through a process that takes years. I've met a young man who was born in a refugee camp in Africa, he was 11 when his family was finally settled in Australia. I don't know if you know much about your average refugee camp but it's not the nicest part of the world to grow up. You live on international aide mostly, since they are generally not accepted by the countries the camps are in. On top of that they are effectively lawless. Rape, Murder, Child Abuse etc.. fairly common place scenario.

And then there's the 11 years part.

The reason people attempt to enter the country another way is not because "they're looking for an easy way out" but because short of being killed in conflict, a refugee camp (if it exists, most of the more recent conflicts there's no where to run) is a pretty poor second option.

Unfortunately for many there are no other options. Anyone with cash get's themselves an international student visa and overstays like Liam said. If you're poor to start with though, well a rickety boat trip is about the only option you've got.

And let's not get hung up on the "you've come across x number of countries" argument shall we? Those countries don't want them either; don't have the resources and are dealing with their own weak economies to support refugees/asylum seekers.

Unfortunately the argument seems to always centre on dollars or numbers, or any thing else we can come up with to dehumanise these people. I'll admit there's a few bad eggs (and a heap of mental health conditions that comes with.. you know, torture) but they would be far and away the vast minority. If anything we as Australian's are our own worst enemies here, we vilify them to the point that many of these communities turn inwards. It's starting to be a big problem in Moorooka where you're almost not welcome if you're a white Australian anymore.

But knowing what some of them have put up with in our communities I'm not surprised.

We need to stop treating refugees/asylum seekers as criminals. They're scared, desperate people who have faced extreme torture and violence.

It's about time we stopped expecting our government to solve the problem and looked at what they can contribute to our society (For the record, the Hazara people from Afghanistan are some of the most beautiful people I've ever met).

I can support the idea that proper checks on anyone we supply a permanent visa to for the sake of our communities safety and security, but as a country that enjoys so much and claims to be a signatory to various human rights conventions I think it's absolutely disgusting that an election was run almost entirely on a fear campaign of a people the average Australian knows nothing about.

Or get's their facts from Murdoch Media.
 
@tavas: Summary: a single report said something, a couple of people cried about their right to be racist, swedish society isn't perfect.
Great article. Might go read some A Bolt for unbiased reporting.
 
Hypothetical : bloke knocks at your door, tells you his wife was gang raped in an alley, his children had their legs broken by the same people and he narrowly escaped having his face burnt with an oxy torch. He's scared, confused and desperate. How many of you tell him to **** off because it's not your problem? How many of you push him out the door and back into the same street the goons who hurt his family are waiting in?

Maybe he's really there to steal your silver. Must have watched Clockwork Orange one too many times.
 
That red herring came directly from the Australian department of immigration and border protections website.
Refugees seek asylum they are different thing yes.
fuckin armchair warrior hey, I'm at sunnybank whenever your keen to meet up.
Manticle I'm not sure if you were talking to me? I don't think they should be sent back and have said that.
 
Beertard said:
Beertard, on 09 Jul 2014 - 6:36 PM, said:

fuckin armchair warrior hey, I'm at sunnybank whenever your keen to meet up.
And do what? Get a steak? Beat some sense in to me?

I wasn't solely referring to you with that comment. Was merely trying to inject a human element into what seemed to me, a very pragmatic approach to what for many people is life or death.
 
Not talking solely to you, no. Some of what I've said is in response to you, some to others, some just a general rant, befitting this thread.
 
manticle said:
Hypothetical : bloke knocks at your door, tells you his wife was gang raped in an alley, his children had their legs broken by the same people and he narrowly escaped having his face burnt with an oxy torch. He's scared, confused and desperate. How many of you tell him to **** off because it's not your problem? How many of you push him out the door and back into the same street the goons who hurt his family are waiting in?

Maybe he's really there to steal your silver. Must have watched Clockwork Orange one too many times.
Funny thing is when similar non hypothetical behavior takes place nine thousand odd miles away and powers that be try to set things right, its condemned. There's a reason people risk all to flee these places. And it ain't the ******* weather.

Only difference is you telling the whole country to get fucked instead.
 
manticle said:
I went to a halal butcher every week for about 7 years. No-one ever screamed at me, looked down on me or did anything other than fill my order quietly, politely and bid me good day. The only exception being the butcher who wanted to chat about different methods of cooking lamb and the lady who asked if one of my piercings hurt because she was considering getting the same one. I wouldn't be judging an entire culture set on the ramblings of a 5 year old.
Did I say I was judging an entire culture, I was mentioning what could be being said about non Muslims in their family environment.
Last year I spent 2 weeks in Sri Lanka where they are sick to the back teeth with the Muslims in their country, but afterwards spent 1 week in the Maldives where they are all Muslim and very nice people, I wouldn't judge a religious sect on the rantings of an 5 year old.
 
Liam_snorkel said:
EDIT: to Dave70

you're talking about the rate of reported sexual assaults, of which they have a broader definition than the rest of europe, and the police file cases of multiple assaults as separate offenses. think of the assange case.

http://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/news-from-bra/archive/news/2011-01-18-how-common-is-rape-in-sweden-compared-to-other-european-countries.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372
The broader issue I was kind of skirting around were the group of people who seemed to be over represented in the rapes. Since I'm not a Swedish cop, I can only go off what I read on the interwebz.

I do however have a facebook friend - I feel so dirty - who lives in Sweden. Young bloke who's passionate about his countries history.
I'll take a break from grooming him and ask his opinion.
 
@ Manticle: That article was simply in response to Liam's about Sweden being openly generous in accepting refugees. You can find any article that supports whatever argument you want.
Google "Sweden Immigration Problems" and see.

I actually don't have an opinion on the matter. My dad was an Italian migrant and my wife is a Russian migrant. So without migration I wouldn't exist and neither would my kids. So we need to have some migration and certainly we have a good standard of living and can accept those less fortunate than ourselves. Anyone who thinks differently needs to check their moral compass.

But to say we should have open borders is just as silly an argument as saying "**** off we're full". We need some checks and balances.We also need some thought as to what happens to them once they're here. Taking a group of people with nothing left, dumping them in country with no support will lead to social problems. So if you want open borders, fine, but also consider the next step - who's paying, who's looking after these guys, how do they find work, affordable housing, health etc. Dumping them onto an already overburdened Social Security system isn't solving the problem. Expecting "Govt" to fix it doesn't work. The Govt isn't some sapient creature with unlimited resources to solve every problem we have. So let's get some structure around that next step as well.

**** off we're full is one of the stupidest things I see. Its mindless bigotry that was mildly amusing at 15 but now we're supposedly educated it shows our lack of evolution as a country. But 85% of our population lives within 50km of the ocean. Why? Cos there's no ******* water inland. Certainly not enough to support decent population growth. So the argument that we have low population density doesn't stack up either.

As I said, I have no opinion on the matter. I have grown up in rural WA and seen massive problems that the aboriginals have/are going through, and seen no answers from any political faction as to how to fix it.. I've lived in the Philippines and seen what poverty looks like, and not seen any sustainable way of fixing it. And I've been through some of the back blocks of Africa, and again, not seen anything tangible from any political persuasion that will actually address and remedy any of these issues. And throwing good money after bad isn't doing it, particularly when its someone else's money. No Govt, Labor, Liberal, Green or other has any real solutions. its just blah blah blah for the sake of 30% of votes to keep them in.

So I may be sitting on the fence, but from what I've seen, I've learnt that there is no one easy solution to address it, and pontificating on the internet behind a keyboard amounts to **** all but a warm feeling inside that you think you are right. Much akin to sitting in your own piss.
 

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