Closest home brew setup to a microbrewery?

[Kevin Hoey]

Hi all, I’m just starting out and at the moment have a fermenter fridge and keg fridge. What is the best setup to be close to a microbrewery setup to gain experience on? Also how much roughly? Grainfather seems good and easy but not at all similar to any brewery I walk into!

 

[Roosterboy]

Basically there is alot to go into and I think a good place to start is read some brewing books .That sounds like a fob off but there needs to be an understanding of the science behind brewing. There are resources on this site and on youtube and other sites that can help. To answer your question, BIAB systems as they are called like Robobrew, Grainfather , Braumeister etc... use the same principles but on a much smaller(& inexpensive ) scale but also a less efficient method in general. So anything larger than micro brewery use separate tanks in general.

 

[philrob]

Join a brewclub near you and talk to experienced members.
Most will be happy to show you their set ups as well.

 

[Half-baked]

To answer the question directly...

Most of the breweries I’ve seen have four vessels: mash tun, lauter tun, boil kettle and hot liquor tank.

Haven’t heard of a lauter tun at the home brew level, most mash and lauter in the same vessel.

But yes, agree with others, you should look all this up, or talk to local homebrewers or your local homebrew shop before buying anything

 

[MHB]

Quite a lot of small breweries are opening up with Braumeister systems (up to 1000L now).
Personally I think lumping a BM in with BIAB is a bit disingenuous, in that BIAB was developed as a low cost alternative to a BM and lacking most of its features. Without doubt BIAB is a good way to get started in AG brewing.

Plenty of good quality 3V systems out there, as philrob said, join a local club, ask around, have a look at a few systems.
The best advice is as above study up on brewing, learning at the beginning will save you a pile of grief (and money) at the other end.
Mark

 

[Roosterboy]

Quite a lot of small breweries are opening up with Braumeister systems (up to 1000L now).
Personally I think lumping a BM in with BIAB is a bit disingenuous, in that BIAB was developed as a low cost alternative to a BM and lacking most of its features. Without doubt BIAB is a good way to get started in AG brewing.

Plenty of good quality 3V systems out there, as philrob said, join a local club, ask around, have a look at a few systems.
The best advice is as above study up on brewing, learning at the beginning will save you a pile of grief (and money) at the other end.
Mark

I wasn't suggesting the Braumeister was in the same class as the others Mark , Braumeisters are a top class bit of gear , European made, I love my Braumeister, just that it represents a compact, space saving more cost-effective style of brewing .

 

[JDW81]

What are you trying to achieve Kevin? Do you want to gain some all grain brewing experience, or set up at home with the sort of kit that would be similar to what a micro would use (although there are lots of different brewing options for micros these days)?

If you want to learn the basic of AG brewing then brew in a bag/grainfather/brewmeister will all make great beer. A 3 vessel brewery with a HLT/MLT and kettle can also be built cheaply and make awesome beer (my first 3v setup cost about $250 all up).

Cost wise, you can spend as much or as little as you like, but a more expensive kit won't necessarily make better beer.

Joining a brew club, or learning from an experienced home brewer who lives close by is a good way to see the different brewery options in action, and help guide what might suit your needs.

 

[S.E]

BIAB wasn’t developed as a low cost alternative to the Braumeister. It stands for Brew In A Bag and is the name coined by AHB members for a very old home brewing method that predates the Braumeister. It was the most common method used before purpose built home brewing equipment or even beer kits became available. One of the simplest version was a cloth or bag in a stock pot used to lift the grain out after the mash that was carried out on a kitchen stove or in the oven.

Another old method was the pot in a pot or bucket in a bucket. One pot or bucket would have holes drilled in the bottom and be placed inside the other similar to the malt pipes in single vessel breweries like the Braumeister.

 

[MHB]

BIAB wasn’t developed as a low cost alternative to the Braumeister. It stands for Brew In A Bag and is the name coined by AHB members for a very old home brewing method that predates the Braumeister. It was the most common method used before purpose built home brewing equipment or even beer kits became available. One of the simplest version was a cloth or bag in a stock pot used to lift the grain out after the mash that was carried out on a kitchen stove or in the oven.

Another old method was the pot in a pot or bucket in a bucket. One pot or bucket would have holes drilled in the bottom and be placed inside the other similar to the malt pipes in single vessel breweries like the Braumeister.

Reinvented History to a large extent.
BIAB in its modern interpretation was pretty much independently invented (or reinvented) by a member here (Patrick Hollingdale). It was later noted that George Fix made reference to "Pillow Case Brewing" although I haven't seen the reference or what he is reported to have said about it. Some give the credit to Line and claim it was all an English invention (they would).
A few other members here helped Pat with the development, I even stuck my oar in the water as did Thirsty Boy and a couple of others, strangely enough at the time I was the only agent for Braumeister in Australia, and know for a fact that BIAB was developed as a lower cost alternative.
However it came about I think the development of BIAB has been the most significant change in home brewing, at least since it was legalised (thanks Gough) in Australia.
Puts the production of good quality AG beer well within the reach of anyone who wants to have a go.
Mark

 

[S.E]

Reinvented History to a large extent.
BIAB in its modern interpretation was pretty much independently invented (or reinvented) by a member here (Patrick Hollingdale). It was later noted that George Fix made reference to "Pillow Case Brewing" although I haven't seen the reference or what he is reported to have said about it. Some give the credit to Line and claim it was all an English invention (they would).
A few other members here helped Pat with the development, I even stuck my oar in the water as did Thirsty Boy and a couple of others, strangely enough at the time I was the only agent for Braumeister in Australia, and know for a fact that BIAB was developed as a lower cost alternative.
However it came about I think the development of BIAB has been the most significant change in home brewing, at least since it was legalised (thanks Gough) in Australia.
Puts the production of good quality AG beer well within the reach of anyone who wants to have a go.
Mark

Mark, this nonsense Pat Hollingdale or pistolpatch as I think he was known as on here somehow invented the system is repeated and seems to continue despite all the evidence to the contrary. For sure he thought he was inventing it at the time and he called it BIAB which has stuck and is wide spread due to AHB and the internet but that’s about as far as it goes.

BIAB has not developed in any way and is no different to how it was done before AHB. I personally did it almost exactly the same way as pistolpatch before I owned or had even seen a computer. The only difference was my BIAB was not home made, both the Electrim Bin and bag was available even back then and purchased from my LHBS and I heated about 2-3L of water in a saucepan or kettle to pour over and rinse the grain after lifting the bag. Other brewers did not sparge the grain at all.

Early HB authors in the sixties and seventies such as Dave Line and Ken Shales all wrote about and illustrated BIAB and/or bucket in a bucket as the way to brew AG beers. I have never seen any early HB books that mention any other methods.

The first time I recall seeing or hearing of 3v HB systems was in about 1995-96 on internet chat groups. I would be very interested in hearing Mark, if you anyone else knows of any HB books prior to the eighties or even nineties that use 3v or any method other than BIAB for AG brewing?

Cheers Sean

 

[shacked]

Join a brewclub near you and talk to experienced members.
Most will be happy to show you their set ups as well.

This is the call! Join a brew club and talk to folks there. If you are in Sydney then there is the ISB club which meet regularly and has some award winning brewers as members. Check them out here: https://aussiehomebrewer.com/forums/isb-inner-sydney-brewers-club.36/

 

[MHB]

Whether it was invented or re-invented by Pat is open to discussion. It wasn't a method that was existent here in Oz.
When I started All Grain (AG) brewing the best and perhaps only book I could find was a first edition of Graham Wheelers (RIP) "Home Brewing" which doesn't mention brewing in a bag, or bags except for the use of small muslin bags for steeping crystal malts or hops.
When BIAB (via Pat) was in its early formative stages I did go looking for any information on the process. Nothing was to be found. My library has expanded considerably since then, just had a fossick through some of my older books
Home Beermaking - William More, basically talks about Extract Brewing with mention of small grain/hop bags
Home Brewing - Michael Rodgers-Wilson, Older Australian book, again mostly extract.
The Book of Beer (1956) - Andrew Campbell. No mention of bags, some interesting historical recipes I have to revisit.
Home Brewing Without Failures (1966) - H.E. Bravery. No mention of bags...

Most of my other old brewing books are on commercial brewing (sort of a collector).
But as I said I cant find any existing previous references to BIAB other than those I posted above.
It may have been a common practice in the UK, though I find it odd that all the books I have from there don't mention the process. I would have thought Wheeler would have mentioned it were that the case, his books talk about home made lauter tuns (bucket in bucket) and a kettle (what would be called a 2V system by a commercial brewer, with the addition of a HLT a 3V by a home brewer).
My first AG brewing was pre-WWW and mostly based on Wheelers early writing, so all multi vessel.
I just found my copy of "The Big Book Of Brewing" - Dave Line. He does mention using a Bag and a Bruheat Boiler.
His instructions are to mash the grain in the Bruheat, then transfer it to the bag for sparging... Not quite the same at all.
Pretty moot anyway, and a fair way off topic, fair to say Pat contributed a lot (and some epic posts) to brewing here in Australia (now world wide) like it or not he did codify what has become know as BIAB and to the best of my knowledge it was original work for which he deserves the credit. Others may have independently come up with similar processes before or after, it may just be that his timing was good and his name has been attached pretty inseparably to BIAB.
Not going to get in a bunch either way.
Mark

 

[Kevin Hoey]

Thanks for the replies. What’s the nearest brew club to Schofields in Sydney? Any contact details?

 

[DJR]

Either Hills Brewers Guild or Western Sydney Brewers from Schofields I'd say.

Search facebook and you should find their pages

 

[shacked]

Hi all, I’m just starting out and at the moment have a fermenter fridge and keg fridge. What is the best setup to be close to a microbrewery setup to gain experience on? Also how much roughly? Grainfather seems good and easy but not at all similar to any brewery I walk into!

Getting back to the original post, if you are looking for something that emulates the sort of kit that you'd see in a brewery, you are going to be shopping for a 'pilot brewery'. This is what some breweries use to make test batches before scaling them up to full production sizes.

Hold on to your wallet, 'cause they ain't cheap. Here are some of the more 'affordable' pilot systems around:

https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/all-grain-mashing-equipment/3-vessel-pilot-breweries

For example, this 150L system won't net you much change from 10 large:
https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/pro-150l-3-vessel-nano-brewery-full-electric-system-no-stand

If you are looking to gain experience to help you on a path to commercial brewing as a career move, then I suggest you spend a lot of time at your local brewery, get to know the folks there and volunteer your time on brew day. Note: you will be doing lots and lots and lots and lots of cleaning. Brewing = cleaning