Can't seal a keg

[H@wkeye!]

Hey all

Bought the cheapest, keg. Sadly a mistake. Can't seal it. Have replaced the seal, the actual thing is the keg not the cheap, it is the one i've used many time. It is the lid - not the same one one from the cheap kegs. Cannot seal it. Any suggested? Go buy a new one? Will never buy one that does seal itself again.

Cheer

Hawk

 

[Blind Dog]

Depends a lot on why it doesn’t seal.

Use soapy water to find where the leak is and then you’ll b3 better placed to work out if it’s fixable.

If the lid itself isn’t sealing, you can try using coins under the ‘legs’ of the lid handle as that might help seal it. The in and out posts can leak both around the pin st the top and the screw thread, so check those seals are working. The prv can also leak, but I’ve no idea how to fix that. I’ve also heard of kegs with small holes in them.

 

[Kev R]

Understand your frustration. Some more details and some one here can probably help.

 

[Drewgong]

if it's any of the seals try food grade grease

 

[H@wkeye!]

Will try some food grade greece. Failing that transfer it into another sealable keg

 

[MHB]

Will try some food grade greece. Failing that transfer it into another sealable keg

Take the stick of Souvlaki out and use some food grade grease!
Sorry I'm one of the worlds great misspellers but that one was too good to let slide by.

Take a photo
Check for dents around the hatchway
Look for bits of crud (often old perished Hatch O-Ring) under the lip of the hatchway.
Is the hatch flat - sit it on a table/bench... is it warped or dinged
Get a new hatch O-Ring, the white silicone ones or the fatter foamed black rubber ones will often take up and seal where thinner harder industrial O-Rings wont.

The little plastic feet on the leaver that closes the keg can wear. they are replaceable and new ones will pull the hatch up tighter, their official name is "Keg Bail Foot Covers" which makes what we call a hatch a Bail (meh).

Mark

 

[H@wkeye!]

Thanks for the advice. Managed to get it sorted (i hope - of another empty CO2 bottle). Just replaced it with the last empty keg with a little food grade grease. Think i'll replace all the o-rings with the new while ones. Don't want to go through this again. Will have another batch kegging to do in 2 weeks. Need all the kegs sorted by then.

 

[stm]

leaver

"lever" Hehe.

 

[MHB]

A bonus vowel.
Yes I know spelling isn't my strong point - good at fixing leaky kegs but!
Mark

 

[garage_life]

Thanks for the advice. Managed to get it sorted (i hope - of another empty CO2 bottle). Just replaced it with the last empty keg with a little food grade grease. Think i'll replace all the o-rings with the new while ones. Don't want to go through this again. Will have another batch kegging to do in 2 weeks. Need all the kegs sorted by then.

Don't want to state the obvious but always use lube.
Dry seals don't seal well especially at low pressures as the oring isn't forced as hard into the gap it's trying to seal as it would be in a Hight pressure situation (500psi+) the grease helps the oring seal the gap and also allows it to move / extrude easier into the gap it is to seal.
Hope that makes sense...

Afterthought, wind the pressure up (to a safe level for the vessel/keg) for a minute and back it off to the desired pressure to help the seal to seat is also a good idea too, can check for leaks at this time to verify a positive seal.

 

[H@wkeye!]

I think that is what did the trick.

 

[BestBeer]

Mmmm K.. How to pressure test your kegs and seals... fill them completely with water, and then apply water under the required pressure - that way if your gear leaks or splits it just "blurts" a spurt of water, where as compressed air sends them into low earth orbit - because when they split, there is still pressure in there - like a giant spring - and if your in the way - too bad for you.

The other thing is that I really like is the Motortech Silicone Spray 330Gm. You can get it from Repco, Autobarn etc., and neither it not it's solvents (butane?) affect rubbers or plastics etc., and it is food grade safe. It's a very thick, silicone oil, which goes really well on seals - and a tiny little spray - works really well on most things....

 

[peterlonz]

Guys this is a simple issue.
Checking for leaks needs to be kept a simple as possible also.
Remember that our kegs are a proven design & when in good condition with relatively new seals will work very well at the pressures we normally use.
Basics: I think (if my memory serves me correctly) that there are 5 seals on every keg & they need to be in reasonable condition.
Silicone rubber seals are expensive, & harder to obtain, & work best, & last longer. Plus you need some of each O ring size.
Ordinary rubber O rings are cheap, easy to obtain, & also work well when reasonably new, but they will not last as long. That said you should expect at least 2 years out of a set of ordinary rubber O rings.
I recommend all seals are replaced on a newly acquired keg, after careful inspection to ensure there are no holes due to corrosion. Yes stainless can corrode under some circumstances typically from a minor "pit" which corrodes through the wall. Almost impossible to see so generally you proceed assuming no holes, replace seals & then test.
Use a food grade lubricant (several mentioned in this thread) when fitting seals, a little goes far!
Pressure testing: practical pressure is about 8 psi & may be obtained by CO2 or air. I use a very low cost garden sprayer device to pump air pressure to about 8 psi (no gauge just pump to what feels high). apply soapy foaming water & look for expanding bubbles. This is OK for most purposes but you may miss very small leaks. I had to immerse one keg in my swimming pool to eventually locate a tiny leak that had cost me most of my CO2.
With good practices,care, & familiarity, leaks will become a thing of the past.

 

[BestBeer]

Guys this is a simple issue.
Pressure testing: practical pressure is about 8 psi & may be obtained by CO2 or air. I use a very low cost garden sprayer device to pump air pressure to about 8 psi (no gauge just pump to what feels high). apply soapy foaming water & look for expanding bubbles. This is OK for most purposes but you may miss very small leaks. I had to immerse one keg in my swimming pool to eventually locate a tiny leak that had cost me most of my CO2.
With good practices,care, & familiarity, leaks will become a thing of the past.

The correct method of pressure testing any vessel is to go by the certification pressure - what it has to be tested at, and by filling it with water only, to do it with. Assuming that the keg is rated as a pressure vessel and not a storage container - and it's all them little bits of corrosion etc., that do lead to them bursting when some dumb **** pumps them up nice and hard with compressed air......

 

[peterlonz]

Yes, generally speaking pressure vessels should be hydraulically tested & water is the easiest in most cases.
Rules vary between jurisdictions but often smaller size containers are not classified as pressure vessels.
To reduce the concerns a "newbie to kegging" might have I offer some further explanations
I have never seen or heard of a Cornelius keg (which is what is mostly used by home brewers) "bursting" and it would be most unlikely that this would occur as a result of corrosion. It's difficult to over pressure these kegs because most CO2 cylinders simply can't deliver beyond 120 psi (the Cornelius keg rating).
Similarly most air compressors will not normally deliver above about 100 psi.

So I am saying this:
1) Test your kegs after seal renewal at about 8 psi, this is less than one tenth their design certification pressure.
2) You need not go through the messy & wet procedure of hydraulic testing so long as you ensure that you can't accidentally deliver much above 8 psi. That's why I use an el cheapo garden spray, hand pump device which cost about 5USD, modification to suit my purposes was very straightforward.
3) Unless your visual inspection of the keg body reveals obvious corrosion, You can proceed on the assumption that your keg is strong enough for the purpose of home brewing. Later testing may however reveal very small holes resulting from pitting corrosion. I would recommend scrapping any keg with through wall pitting, too hard to fix!

 

[H@wkeye!]

Hrm good to know. I usually just test with my regulator. Can end up wasting a bit of CO2 though.

 

[BestBeer]

Mmmmmm no.... hydrostatic pressure testing, as per the test pressure and at the required time, is the only way.... and leak testing - the same.

CO2 cylinders typically come filled to a pressure of around 4500 kPa or 650 PSI - and people do turn up with high downside pressure regulators and regulators can be come damaged, worn, defective etc.. a bit like the old tyre inflator at the garage... says 30 PSI and yet my high pressure bicycle tyres (typically inflated to 85 PSI) are pretty ******* hard.....

And I am going, "Ooooo - that is well above 30 PSI that is".

AND when your cleaning your kegs, and they are FULL of water / sanitiser, use a water type hand pump (like a hydraulic jack pump) or motor driven pump - with a check (one way) valve, to see if the cylinder distorts or springs leaks,

It's not that "pressure testing" for small leaks at user pressures is such a bad thing..... like 8 PSI etc.. I can see the sense in that but people get it in their heads to do all sorts of things, including upping the pressure or hooking the kit up to a work shop type air compressor... the modern ones run at 145 PSI....

The real danger is if the cylinder is rotted from the inside out, then considerable wall strength can be lost and they can easily burst.

And the difference between hydrostatic pressure testing and compressed air pressure testing, it that the steel stretches elastically - just a bit, and if the keg does fail, there is only a small spurt of water. When a keg full of compressed air splits, the compressed air acts like a giant spring, and the cylinder can go in all sorts of directions kind of like a giant frisbee with jagged knife edges...

So the practice of using anything other than system pressure and soapy water for leak testing ought to be encouraged - because that is when most leaks can be found - when the keg is in service, but high pressure testing using air or CO2 - ought to never be encouraged.





https://conical-fermenter.com/Keg_Specifications_and_Details.html

Keg Specifications and Details
In side by side tests, our kegs have outperformed major European keg manufacturers in key keg quality tests.

Our kegs are produced in an ISO 9001 Certified manufacturing facility to assure you receive the highest quality kegs possible. Here is a short summary of the testing done on each lot of kegs. Contact us for an example test report.

Keg Inspection and Testing Procedure (brief summary)

Pressure Test:

• Keep the keg under 6.3 bar pressure (92 psi) for 1 minute, the body shall not twist.
• Keep the keg under 10 bar pressure (145 psi) for 1 minute, the body’s twist shall be ≤50ml.
• Destruction test: pressure ≥75 bar (1090 psi); keg twist is allowed when struck by a hydraulic machine

Drop Test:

• 50°drop test: Kegs shall be filled with cold water (not less than 99.5%), and then be dropped from 4 feet (1.2 meters) using slings at correct angle (50°) with a quick release mechanism for 3 times onto a 1 inch (25mm) steel plate on the ground.
• 90°drop testing; Kegs shall be filled with cold water (not less than 99.5%), and then be dropped from 4 feet (1.2 meters) using slings at correct angle (90°) with a quick release mechanism for 3 times onto a 1 inch (25mm) steel plate on the ground.

Burst Test: Add a burst disc under the bottom, and increase the pressure up to 40 ± 10 bar. The burst disc is allowed to break, but no more breakage anywhere else.

Color labeling testing: 24 hours after spray-paint is applied, wash the applied part with 60-70? water, and flush 1 minutes with cool water, repeat for 10 times. The color label shall remain the same.

Requirement for spear assembly: Test the spear in water to check if the sealing is ok, then screw down spear with a force of 7 – 8 kpm (70 – 80Nm).

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Definitely the soft silicon seals make it easier to seal the lids on corny kegs. With that said I am not sure if many home brewers are aware but silicon is a type of rubber that has high oxygen transmission rate (orders of magnitude higher) than other types of rubber. So for beers that you are going to store for a while I personally like the nitrile keg lid seals which are harder but will keep your oxygen sensitive beverage for much longer.

To be quite honest I know there is an attraction to purchasing second hand kegs but honestly with new kegs being $89 I dont think it's even worth getting second hand kegs anymore:
https://www.kegland.com.au/19l-ball-lock-keg-brand-new-546.html

I would also agree that testing kegs is a really good idea especially if you have just changed the o-rings. One of the fastest ways to test is simply turn the gas cylinder on, raise the pressure of the kegs to the working pressure. Then turn the gas cylinder off and see if the system holds pressure for a few days. If the pressure drops you have a leak.
NOTE: if you have beverage in the keg and do this test you might get CO2 absorb into the beverage which will also make the pressure drop so best to do with the kegs being empty. I would always do this simple test before leaving my gas cylinder turned on especially if I have just purchased a new keg.

 

[peterlonz]

Quite a bit of impractical, incorrect & biased comment above.
Too much to go into detail, but I stand by what I said, which was intended to be a simple, low cost, low effort, procedure, that consumes relatively little CO2.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Quite a bit of impractical, incorrect & biased comment above.
Too much to go into detail, but I stand by what I said, which was intended to be a simple, low cost, low effort, procedure, that consumes relatively little CO2.

Yes, it's impoartant to note that we are a sponsor of the forum with a actual retail store. We have not tried to hide that fact at all. We feel that it's important for forums to be supported by sponsorship otherwise those forums will cease to exist. At the end of the day someone had to pay for the forum.

With that said, we do also sell second hand ball lock kegs (here) and we could have put a link to the second hand ball lock kegs but I only recommend the brand new keg as we feel that with the prices being quite similar that is worth going with a new keg which comes with 5 years warranty. I should note that our profit margin is the same with new and second hand kegs so there is no incentive for us to sell one over the other. I should also say you only have to loose one bottle of gas due to a leak and you have already covered the difference between a second hand and new keg. So in our opinion the new kegs might end up being the cheapest in the long run taking everything into account.

With regarsd to being incorrect, or impractical do you mean the testing is incorrect & impractical, or do you mean the silicon seals do not have a higher gas transmission rate, or do you mean purchasing new kegs is not practical?