Calling All Flooded Font Owners...

[philski]

Hello all,

Well my setup is nearly complete.... I've got the chest freezer, the font, the taps, the connectors etc, temp controller... now all I need is a pump so I can pump cold water through my flooded font!!! I've searched and found out a few people are using pond pumps to pump water through the font and I was wondering what size/capacity of pump people have been using? I have looked on eBay & the web so far and have come across several options... They are rated in Litres/hour and also by the amount of head they produce. Now I assume that I need one which creates enough head so it can pump from the base of the freezer in the bucket to the top of the font - is this correct? I think thats a bit over a metre but haven't measured yet - What capacities/brands/types does everyone use and does anyone have a problem with it pumping too fast and making a whole lot of noise? Any tips on the best way to do this?

Thanks for the thoughts

Phil

 

[Doc]

I use an Eden 114 140 600litre/hour 11w Pond pump.
Variable output so you can choose how fast to pump.
Probably about 1.5 meters head in my system. Works great.

Beers,
Doc

 

[tangent]

photos Doc?
I've been ogling fonts on the Andale site.

 

[GMK]

Phil

Mix glycol with the water 30% - you want the water/glycol mix to be -2.5 - 4 degrees - that way u can get the font iced up looks fantastic.

goto www.creativepumps.com.au and check their pumps out.

Tangent - i have a 3 tier T bar Andale Carlton flooded Gold font - pratically brand new for 250.00...

Hope this helps

 

[Guest Lurker]

Hello all,

. Now I assume that I need one which creates enough head so it can pump from the base of the freezer in the bucket to the top of the font - is this correct? I think thats a bit over a metre but haven't measured yet -
Phil

[post="93797"][/post]​

Not quite. The total head the pump works against is the pull of gravity against lifting from the elevation of the bucket (actually the elevation of the water in the bucket) to the elevation of the top of the font PLUS the friction loss required to push the water through the piping.

I guess they are pretty narrow tubes you want to push the water through? If so I would add at least a metre to the pumping height when looking at pump specs.

 

[Doc]

photos Doc?

[post="93818"][/post]​

Nope. Sorry. It is just a plain ordinary little pond pump.
Check them out here

Beers,
Doc

 

[Uncle Fester]

I intend if and when I complete my setup, to use this pump (Mainly because it is easily adaptable for in-line use)

Pond Pump

I intend to keep a 15 litre reserve of glycol (or glycol/water mix) in the freezer compartment of my keg fridge. Gravity feed this to the pump in the link above, and then I will then interlace the glycol lines with my beer lines, insulate the whole lot in alfoil and lagging. Hopefully this will keep the beer lines at a reasonable temperature, as well as chilling the font.

I expect the beer lines to be 4 metres in length, with at least 2 of those being couled in the fridge. I should be able to get the font within 1.5 metres from the fridge.

When I have something of note, I will post some pix for comment/recomendation.

M

 

[muga]

I use a 300L/hr aquarium pump, paid $12 for it brand new.
It works well, just make sure you get a pump that has a head-height that is greater than the height from the pump to the font. (eg. the height from the pump to the top of the font is 1m get a pump with >1m head height, otherwise it will probably overwork and break)

 

[philski]

Cheers for the info guys... GMK I will try that Glycol mix - sounds good!!

I will have a look at those websites and let you know what i get!

 

[philski]

Also, Doc - just to get an idea of flow rate - when you put the pump on max (ie. 600L/hr) is that flowing way too fast or is it OK?

Guest Lurker - I also just found this:

http://www.creativefountains.com.au/Pumps/..._pumping_height

There's a table there which basically says exactly what you were saying! It relates friction, pipe size and head loss.

 

[T.D.]

Phil

Mix glycol with the water 30% - you want the water/glycol mix to be -2.5 - 4 degrees - that way u can get the font iced up looks fantastic.

[post="93834"][/post]​

If the font is sitting at <0 degreesC, why doesn't that freeze the beer in the lines?

Obviously there is a simple explanation for this because I have seen plenty of fonts in pubs that are iced up and the beer clearly doesn't freeze.

I do like the look of an iced up font though. :beerbang:

 

[Doc]

Also, Doc - just to get an idea of flow rate - when you put the pump on max (ie. 600L/hr) is that flowing way too fast or is it OK?

It is on the second to slowest setting from memory.

Beers,
Doc

 

[muga]

I would say because there is a constant flow it dosnt get chance to freeze, though the condensation on the font is still so it will freeze.

 

[T.D.]

So do you only turn the pump on when pouring? A home keg setup for me would provide plenty of time when the beer would be still enough to freeze, if the pump was running all the time that is.

 

[philski]

Thanks Doc... the reason I ask is I'm looking @ this one:

http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/produ...?pID=203&cID=10

It's the Watermaster Jebao 1000L/hr Pump - I'm just wondering if its slowest flow rate (500L/hr) would be too fast... it sounds pretty fast, but the smaller pumps don't create enough head - unless you pay a lot more!

 

[GMK]

the pump stays on all the time...

 

[coolum brewer]

Phil

Mix glycol with the water 30% - you want the water/glycol mix to be -2.5 - 4 degrees - that way u can get the font iced up looks fantastic.

[post="93834"][/post]​

If the font is sitting at <0 degreesC, why doesn't that freeze the beer in the lines?

Obviously there is a simple explanation for this because I have seen plenty of fonts in pubs that are iced up and the beer clearly doesn't freeze.

I do like the look of an iced up font though. :beerbang:

[post="93863"][/post]​

This is a very good question, and coincidentally one that has crossed my mind in the past few weeks. I've recently bought a 3 tap flooded font and am considering how I'll hook it up.

There is plenty of information on the AHB site about flooded fonts and how to cool them using glycol solutions and aquarium pumps, and I think that is all pretty well understood. I haven't been able to find too much about iced fonts, though. I'd be very interested if anyone on here is successfully using an iced system.

I have a theory on iced fonts which I'd like to share - please feel free to shoot me down if you think I'm talking crap :unsure:

1. Beer, due to the lovely alcohol contained within, has a lower freezing point than water. Obviously, higher alcohol brew will have lower freezing points. A 5.0% beer will have a freezing point around -2.5C.

2. Grade Four Science told us that water freezes at 0C.

3. Glycol mixes have a significantly lower freezing point dependent upon their concentration.

4. From my extensive research, it appears most commercial glycol systems operate at around -4C at the outlet of the glycol block.

As the glycol leaves the block at -4C, it will warm as it travels towards the font. When it floods the font ,the temperature will rise further as the warmer metal of the font transfers it's heat into the glycol.

So, I see the aim of the glycol system to maintain the temperature below 0C (so that the font ices up with condensation from the air), but above -2.5C to stop the beer freezing in the lines. These are reasonably tight tolerances, which calls for temperature control of the glycol and is why, I believe, an iced system is beyond most home systems - and why I'll probably be content with condensation on my font rather than that schmick ice look.

Very interested in any other input - and if anyone is successfully icing their font.

Cheers :chug:
Peter

 

[muga]

I'll test out now to see if I can get ice to form, will have a water/glycol mix and put it in the freezer and pump it with a 300L/hr aquarium pump. I'll be sure to have a couple of beers while waiting for it to ice up..

 

[BennyBrewster]

All you guys with flooded fonts! Im starting to think that I need one now

Does anyone have pictures of their setups ?

Ben

 

[tangent]

i have a 3 tier T bar Andale Carlton flooded Gold font - pratically brand new for 250.00

tempting Ken, but gold is a bit too blingy for me. I'm more a s/s man, but keep me posted.