Brewing salts for mash ph

[manticle]

Actually the problem I have with it, apart from what you mentioned earlier (eg. people dismissing all brewing science in favour of one exbeeriment result), is exactly that - it's dressed up like a designed experiment but falls miserably short in many regards: sample size and repetition being two major ones.

IF it was presented as a side by side and nothing more, it would have more value. When he discusses the concept of statistical significance based on 5 people drinking some hoppy beer, I have to go and do some gardening.

HB side by side comparisons are of interest, without doubt.

 

[TheWiggman]

Should start a new thread on that, would be a rage filled and awesome read.

 

[wobbly]

Their results should be taken with consideration that its a sample size of 1, but its a good starting point on the path/discussion to determining whether those brewing rules/practices apply on a homebrew scale in the 'worth the effort' or 'taste the difference' test

With a sample point of 1 you can draw any graph you want around that point.
Taste is an individuals perception that is different from one person to another. There is no scientific scale to measure and record taste

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Gelding]

With a sample point of 1 you can draw any graph you want around that point.
Taste is an individuals perception that is different from one person to another. There is no scientific scale to measure and record taste

Cheers

Wobbly

lol. MJE1980 and Rocker1986 don't agree that other's opinion of their own beer is important:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88390-fermenting-same-lager-at-10c-vs-18c-comparison-on-brewing-radio/page-2

 

[manticle]

If you've just popped in after a long haitus to troll and irritate various members Gelding, you can go back under your rock.

Feel free to stick around if you have something more useful than one line jabs and lolz to contribute.

 

[Gelding]

oh oh.

If you refer to off topic banter, then its just that isnt it ?

Actually, I fail to see how making a point on assessing the quality of one's beer is considered trolling. I am not sure who you think I am trying to irritate here, though clearly I am irritating your goodself.

 

[manticle]

I'm referring to just about every post you've made in the last 30 or so minutes. Multiple posts, multiple threads, signal to noise ratio very much in favour of noise.

If you want to debate it, take it to pm. If you want to ignore what I'm asking, expect to have posts of no value start to get hidden.

Serious request to pull your head in, starting about now.

Thanks.

 

[GalBrew]

It's not, but they do at least follow some decent scientific/statistical principles
Their results should be taken with consideration that its a sample size of 1, but its a good starting point on the path/discussion to determining whether those brewing rules/practices apply on a homebrew scale in the 'worth the effort' or 'taste the difference' test

I'm sure to anyone brewing professionally its completely irrelevant, but to the guy brewing at home doing things like stressing over the difference between pitching his yeast at 21c instead of 18c or whether his yeast count is exactly right, their results provide some actual results which can reinforce the 'RDWHAHB' mentality

Brulosophy may use statistics, but statistics are completely meaningless when the experiment you are analysing is flawed in more ways than I can count. The biggest flaw (among many) in the Brulosophy paradigm is the random (in people selection) and untested nature of the tasting panel (no one knows if a particular variable can actually be detected by any particular member of the tasting panel). In my opinion as a former proper research scientist is that any result from a Brulosophy experiment (statistically significant or not) is only relevant to that particular tasting panel and can not be extrapolated to the general population.

 

[SBOB]

No arguments there.. But when a sample of a number people cant distinguish some variable being tested (on that particular brew), then it's just another piece of information that can be used when assessing the massive range of Homebrewing techniques that exist, and whether stressing over some particular detail may or may not be worth investing time or money into..

If you listen to the podcast interviews with the guys from brulosophy, despite results being statistically unable to be detected, most of the time they don't change their existing brewing techniques based on the result.. They often reinforce that it's one result from a single test. It's a result, but it's a discussion point and not the definitive answer to that question being tested..

 

[Chris79]

Wasn't aware there was such strong opinions of Brulosophy!

Sydney water pointed me to some of their info I had already found.

In the report I could only see sulphate and zinc, and not Sodium/Na, Calcium/Ca, Magnesium/Mg, Bicarbonate. They said "The characteristics listed in the report are the ones we test for. This may not include all the elements you would like measured. A private water testing company may be able to do testing specific to your needs."

http://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/groups/publicwebcontent/documents/document/zgrf/mdk2/~edisp/dd_096731.pdf - check out page 24-25 and page 52-53.

Where should I look next for these answers?

Cheers

 

[MHB]

Just looked at the report again, what are you missing? I think most of what you need is there, follow the link and remember there are two pages.
Mark

 

[Chris79]

Ok thanks Mark. I'll have a closure look. When I last looked I couldn't see Sodium, Cal, Mag, Bicarbonate. I'll double check

 

[kaiserben]

I don't think that link is the report you want.

Go to this link: http://www.sydneywater.com.au/SW/water-the-environment/how-we-manage-sydney-s-water/safe-drinking-water/water-analysis/index.htm and then plug your address in the box under where it says "Enter your street address below to see the qualities of your local drinking water."

Then it will tell you what water supply system you are in (for me it's Potts Hill) and it'll also provide a fresh link. For me it Water analysis: Potts Hill Delivery System

That PDF (or the one for your area) contains everything you need for brewing purposes.

 

[Chris79]

Thanks Kaiserben. I may have been unclear on what I was needing to look for before, when I found my way to that link to plug in my address.

I did so again, my water is from Prospect/Prospect North.

Do I use the data from the gray column? You're right MHB it has most of what I need, but I can't seen Bicarbonate and Carbonate values.

Mag and Cal are under physical characteristics and Inorganic chemicals. From under which heading do you use the data from with them?

Cheers

View attachment Prospect North water.pdf

 

[kaiserben]

Do I use the data from the gray column?

Yep. Just use a number roughly in the middle of each the ranges listed.

 

[mstrelan]

You're right MHB it has most of what I need, but I can't seen Bicarbonate and Carbonate values.

I believe it can be derived the other values.

Bicarbonate (ppm) = Alkalinity as CaCO3 / 50 * 61

 

[Chris79]

Yep. Just use a number roughly in the middle of each the ranges listed.

great. Looking forward dialling in my mash pH some more!

 

[Chris79]

I believe it can be derived the other values.

Bicarbonate (ppm) = Alkalinity as CaCO3 / 50 * 61

great, mstrelan. Definitely an area I don't yet understand too well and am looking forward to learning and making greater tasting beer!

 

[///]

Ahh you guys are no fun. Where's the mention of calcium being a nutrient to yeast, helps with trub formation, forms an ionic bridge to help yeast floc (it's a metal after all) apart from binding with phosphorous to form phytic acid (hence the oh drop)

Keep it simple, 5gm per 20l is a good start. For 20-50l not really worth doing he molar or computer based calcs.

 

[Chris79]

/// - just 5g of calcium what? I'm not clear on my understanding of these things yet.

Attached is my water report and Brun. In Brun I've been able to fill out the water report tab, can't find Carbonate in the report. I don't know if it goes by an other name. Also under Alkalinity conversion not sure what to put in the first cell. As I can see total hardness and not temp hardness in the report. I can see alkalinity, should I just enter that?

I have filled out the grain bill input (Dark Ale).

View attachment Prospect North water.pdf

View attachment Brun Water 1.18.xls