Braumeister vs 3V: pros and cons

[lukec]

I've only had my 20l BM for a month and have done 3 brews on it. I'm the one who sold the clone version ( 25+ brews) to OP. This is only my opinion, but with 2 boys aged 4-7 and not a lot of space and time on my hands the BM is awesome. My clone was great but I really wanted the real thing and I'm glad I spent the cash to get it. If I had a massive shed no kids and plenty of time id tinker with building a 3v.

So in my opinion.

If you are time short, have kids, not a lot of space and really want repeatability. Buy a braumeister or build a clone. I've done both and think its a great way to go about homebrewing ( remember this is Homebrewing people ).
Rememeber though, that no matter how good your good you can brew and repeat the recipe I believe that repeating the fermenting part is just as important.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Carnie, I can only comment on your second question, from the point of view of having had to play the numbers to come up with my malt pipe sizes, whilst keeping in mind the beers I want produce. The balancing act is that of fluidisation with in the malt pipe (grain vs liquid) and minimum volume to both over flow the malt pipe and cover the elements whilst mashing.
I'd say 18-20L of 1075 would be pushing the limits of the 20l malt pipe, but extending the timings of the boil will get you there, you'd just have to keep an eye on gravity to start your hopping.

MB

 

[Blind Dog]

Reply to carnie Q2 - For a big beer in the 20L you'd probably have to think about a double mash as you can't simply decrease the volume of water for the mash. The efficiency of the second mash will be a lot less than the first, and clearly it adds the second mash to the length of the day. But it is certainly doable and has been done (not yet by me, but there are some interesting reads if you google it). Strong english ales were apparently traditionally made with a double mash as excise at one time was charged on the size of mash tun

 

[Batz]

You BM owners know of this site?

https://forum.braumeisters.net/index.php

3V owners not allowed. And you would not visit a BM site would you?......But some of you have....I KNOW :super:

Batz

 

[Blind Dog]

You BM owners know of this site?

https://forum.braumeisters.net/index.php

3V owners not allowed. And you would not visit a BM site would you?......But some of you have....I KNOW :super:

Batz

thanks - i keep meaning to register there as there's heaps of info. Now I have. Nice signature BTW

 

[sponge]

It's like one of those women-only gyms.

I want in!



(But for now I'll stick to 3V)

 

[lukec]

Like a fat kid who found a cupcake

You BM owners know of this site?

https://forum.braumeisters.net/index.php

3V owners not allowed. And you would not visit a BM site would you?......But some of you have....I KNOW :super:

Batz

 

[thedragon]

Carnie, a mate and I went halves in a BM20 earlier this year. I normally nock out 17L of 1.055 beer and then dilute slightly in the FV (I no chill and my containers are 17L).

Sometimes I wish that I had a 50L, but really because the BM is such a beautiful machine to use, I don't mind doing smaller 17 - 20 L batches.

If I had my time again, I'd buy a BM20, only this time I'd do it earlier.

Edit: typo

I've tried to read as much of this topic as I can, with limited time to do so! So sorry if I've missed the answers to my questions somewhere along the way...

I'm thinking of buying a BM, but with most of my brews will only do enough to fill a 19l corny. And I rarely brew beers above 6.5% at that volume, 'coz I just don't drink enough of them. If I'm doing a BIG beer, I'd more likely do a small (~12l) batch and bottle it.

 

[carniebrew]

Ok, a thread on that Brau site led me to an FAQ on the Spiedel site itself:
http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/frequently-asked-questions-braumeister.html

----------------------


Is it possible to brew any desired quantity of beer?
Determined by system a certain minimum of water is needed for the brewing process. Ensure that the heating elements are always covered with the water while overflowing.

• Min. quantity 20 litre Braumeister: 16 litre of beer
• Min. quantity 50 litre Braumeister: 40 litre of beer

For both devices there is a shortened malt pipe which could be used to brew only a half or less than a half
----------------------
So according to that, with a short malt pipe, you could make an 8 litre batch in a 20l BM, or a 20l batch in a 50l BM. But the "less than a half" is curious, but then that whole FAQ suffers a bit from translation issues I think.

 

[Batz]

It's like one of those women-only gyms.

I want in!



(But for now I'll stick to 3V)

But you guys do, why check it out if you not a BM owner?
We know who you are and where you live.

Batz

Perhaps change your IP addy?

 

[Blind Dog]

Ok, a thread on that Brau site led me to an FAQ on the Spiedel site itself:
http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/frequently-asked-questions-braumeister.html

----------------------


Is it possible to brew any desired quantity of beer?
Determined by system a certain minimum of water is needed for the brewing process. Ensure that the heating elements are always covered with the water while overflowing.

• Min. quantity 20 litre Braumeister: 16 litre of beer
• Min. quantity 50 litre Braumeister: 40 litre of beer

For both devices there is a shortened malt pipe which could be used to brew only a half or less than a half
----------------------
So according to that, with a short malt pipe, you could make an 8 litre batch in a 20l BM, or a 20l batch in a 50l BM. But the "less than a half" is curious, but then that whole FAQ suffers a bit from translation issues I think.

It does. German translated into English is just weird unless the verbs and nouns are put I to the correct order. I'm sure it's why we've fought 2 world wars (and 1 World Cup, do dah). Just do t get me started on the French

Seriously though, thanks for the info. When I bought mine there was no short malt pipe for the 20L. Now they can be had for $165 (G&G). Hallelujah

So you're sorted.

I've done just over 100 brews in a BM 20 L in about 8 months. Sounds a lot, but i brewed for a bunch of mates who took the wort in cubes to ferment, and added a bit to ingredient orders and I got the bit to brew mine with. Worked OK for a while. I'm still addicted, they're back to megaswill,

Point is the BM is a breeze to use, and now you can do higher OG beers in a 20L with a short malt pipe, it perfect

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Other disadvantages I see, for 50L systems and above, you need two people or a pulley system for breaking the suction and lifting out the malt pipe.

Simply untrue. I am well scrawny and can lift the half pipe with one hand, the 50l pipe with a small step ladder and two hands, then after the suction is broken free up a hand to slide the brace under. Not difficult at all.

 

[Kodos]

Simply untrue. I am well scrawny

Simply true. He is

 

[sponge]

But you guys do, why check it out if you not a BM owner?
We know who you are and where you live.

Batz

Perhaps change your IP addy?

It's alright, I haven't been to that site yet. Just like the gym, I'm in the guy in the bushes.

 

[mje1980]

I like the idea of a single vessel, but love the amount of tweaking you can do on a 3V system, and love that you can say you designed it (especially once you get into control panels, etc).

It's easy enough (IMO) to get repeatability on any system, as long as you know your system well. Granted, a BM would make this learning process much faster and allow for more repeatable beers in a shorterspace of time.

The space savings are a massive thumbs up for a BM, but I'm happy enough taking up half a wall for my brewrig. Hell, I take up more space with grain/fermenting fridge/cubes/kegs/etc than I do with my brewrig, so I'm not too concerned about the space my brewrig takes up.

You don't have kids bikes, kids camping gear and just general junk that comes with kids yet sponge . The main reason I switched to the BIAB was so I could free up space in the garage, and less moving around with buckets ( though a pump would fix that ). I also had to pull everything down off a shelf and set it up the day before. If I'd had a dedicated brew space I would've kept the 3v. Now the only time I use a bucket is filling the mash tun/lauter tun/ keggle, and the only setting up I need to do is putting the bag in.

Got the farmhouse kranking, undecided as to which beer to hit it with, beire de garde brune, or saison.

 

[sponge]

You don't have kids bikes, kids camping gear and just general junk that comes with kids yet sponge . The main reason I switched to the BIAB was so I could free up space in the garage, and less moving around with buckets ( though a pump would fix that ). I also had to pull everything down off a shelf and set it up the day before. If I'd had a dedicated brew space I would've kept the 3v. Now the only time I use a bucket is filling the mash tun/lauter tun/ keggle, and the only setting up I need to do is putting the bag in.

Got the farmhouse kranking, undecided as to which beer to hit it with, beire de garde brune, or saison.

Farmhouse cranking? Use it on both!

But in regards to kids, I can see how 1V has its advantages for that, especially without a dedicated brewing area (hopefully I never have that problem as the Mrs is pretty supportive of the hobby... apart from the spending).

TBH, I am normally cleaning/shopping/etc during a brew day and just pop down intermittently to make sure everything is still running smoothly. When I need to, I'll flick another pump on for mash out, but it's generally a fairly non-intrusive day and can still get a fair few other 'chores' accomplished. I definitely spent a lot more of my time watching/stirring/measuring/etc when I didn't have the pumps and control panel so can appreciate how much time ends up going into a brew when automation is minimal.

 

[SimoB]

I haven't got the BM but it looks great and seems to take a lot of the headache out of brewing.

I'm not ready to part with my 3V set up though. Something about it I just love. Like others I love the build too, seems to add a little more excitement on how I can improve my set up.

You can do a 3V set up on the cheap but you will never be happy and continue to upgrade. BM seems like a measure twice cut once type of set up.

 

[Black n Tan]

Simply untrue. I am well scrawny and can lift the half pipe with one hand, the 50l pipe with a small step ladder and two hands, then after the suction is broken free up a hand to slide the brace under. Not difficult at all.

Yes I agree. I use to simply stand on my table to lift the 50L malt pipe. I had a back operation (no, not caused by lifting the malt pipe) so then decided to use a block and tackle: cheap and effective. I used to place the malt pipe stand on the top of the BM before lifting the malt pipe and then twist the malt pipe once the lugs were above the stand and lower: no need to slide the malt pipe stand in with one hand after lifting.

 

[GalBrew]

I see the benefits of both, I really like the idea of a single vessel, but what I don't understand is the 3V statements of cleaning is a bitch and all the hoses a pain.

Cleaning is simple, clean in place no moving stuff around. The only thing I have to "move" is my kettle to the sink to wash it, everything else stays exactly where it is. I use my ramp/soak PID to heat cleaning water (caustic or percarbonate or tricleanium) then recirc through the CFC back into mash tun and then rinse with a citric acid wash, easy.

Hoses? If the 3V is built right there should only be one hose to move, that which recircs back into the mash being moved to the kettle to start the wort transfer. Same hose for connecting to CFC during cleaning phase.

Not hard at all? Or am I missing something?

I get a 3V brew day with a 90 minute boil done in 5 hours INCLUDING cleaning. And that time would be faster if I had of installed a damn 20A outlet in the brewery instead of having to fall back to 10A for everything :'(

How do you empty your mash tun without moving it? I have to move it, take out the false bottom, empty the spent grain and rinse it out with hot water. Kettle requires hot PBW overnight and a bit of a scrub to get it clean. My HERMS needs to be flushed and totally disassembled so the coil can drain. All of my hoses need washing (I do this in the washing machine with napisan), but they need the QDs and clamps removed which then need a soaking in napisan to get the crud off. Two stage water filter needs to be pulled apart and dried, I also spin the filter cartridges in the washing machine to dry them out. The only thing that doesn't need a clean is my HLT. I am also paranoid about drying all my hoses, pots coils etc. so they don't mold up which is a possibility in my garage. Pumps need flushing, then all the electrical bits and pieces need to be packed away and brewstand wiped down. Then all this crap needs to be reassembled for the next brew.

It is a lot of work and I try and do most of it while brewing, but still after a while it takes the fun out of brewday to a degree.

Switching over hoses by comparison is not that big a deal (I have no desire to hard plumb my brewery), but it is annoying.

 

[TidalPete]

How do you empty your mash tun without moving it? I have to move it, take out the false bottom, empty the spent grain and rinse it out with hot water. Kettle requires hot PBW overnight and a bit of a scrub to get it clean. My HERMS needs to be flushed and totally disassembled so the coil can drain. All of my hoses need washing (I do this in the washing machine with napisan), but they need the QDs and clamps removed which then need a soaking in napisan to get the crud off. Two stage water filter needs to be pulled apart and dried, I also spin the filter cartridges in the washing machine to dry them out. The only thing that doesn't need a clean is my HLT. I am also paranoid about drying all my hoses, pots coils etc. so they don't mold up which is a possibility in my garage. Pumps need flushing, then all the electrical bits and pieces need to be packed away and brewstand wiped down. Then all this crap needs to be reassembled for the next brew.

It is a lot of work and I try and do most of it while brewing, but still after a while it takes the fun out of brewday to a degree.

Switching over hoses by comparison is not that big a deal (I have no desire to hard plumb my brewery), but it is annoying.

GalBrew,

Have you have unintentionally typed "HERMS" instead of "HE"????

My HERMS needs to be flushed and totally disassembled so the coil can drain.

Not saying that my way is the way but I too have a HERMS & only do a fraction of your cleaning regime.
i.e. I don't disassemble everything every brewday or soak the kettle overnight, etc, etc.
One-stage water filter (carbon) here & just air dry in place in between brews.
Twice a year a full caustic clean\strip, dissemble of the brewery is done but do run PBW through the system after every brew as well as a good kettle scrub. That says to me that a through caustic clean WILL always get rid of gunk that PBW never will no matter whether your system is a HERMS, RIMS, a BM or whatever.

The only non-ss component left in my system is the HE coil which WILL disintegrate one day unless I do something about it ASAP.
The silicon hoses sold by our sponsors don't live up to the blurb as (even if flushed & cleaned with boiling water\PBW every brew) they will still stain & are a PITA when manually checking the end of wort flow from MT to kettle as they darken with use but AFAIK nothing can be done about that except perhaps subtracting the replacement cost if considering a BM? :lol:

I'd imagine that lots of brewers (not me) empty their MT "in place" quite easily ( Brucie's Stairway To The Stars easily comes to mind (below) which is absolutely excellent IMHO :super: ) & even not going to ask how you manage to remove your falsie before you empty the MT as I'm sure that's just a typo?

Just trying to be informative here so perhaps\maybe a re-think of your cleaning regime might make your brewday shorter & easier? :beer: