Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[Malted]

pictures of the elements and the inside base arangement would be awsome!

View of the inside of a 50L BM, showing two elements.
The other element work around that might work, would be one of those concealed elements from an urn. I saw someone bolt one of them into the bottom of a keg somewhere here on AHB. The BM elements heat pretty quickly (15amp/3,600watts) and I suppose it comes down to element surface area contact with wort. A concealed urn element would be neat and tidy and easier? to clean but may not ramp as quickly due to less surface area contact with the wort? In a small volume Braumiser build, maybe it wouldn't be an issue.


Obviously the view from below. I believe the 20L BM has one element and one pump.


These are the filter plates. The piece of tube in the centre would serve to help align them on the horizontal plane. If they were not there, one side could be up and one side down etc. Also keeps them horizontal as they move or are lifted out with the malt pipe.

 

[matho]

Awesome Malted :beerbang:

I love AHB, ask and thou shall recieve

for the record the braumiser has a ramp rate of 2.5 deg/min

note: i had never seen the underside of the braumeister until after I had built mine, I wasn't too far off the mark all I have to do is put plugs on my control unit instead of being hard wired

cheers
steve

 

[hosko11]

These are the filter plates. The piece of tube in the centre would serve to help align them on the horizontal plane. If they were not there, one side could be up and one side down etc. Also keeps them horizontal as they move or are lifted out with the malt pipe. View attachment 49726

Thanks for the photo's and info Malted. Would you be able to please tell me what the thickness of the filter plates are? I'm not sure what thickness material to use to ensure the they're rigid enough to withstand the pressure applied by the pumps. This would give me something to work from.
Thanks,
Hosko

 

[matho]

the next part will cover the controller build and the final part will be and instruction maunal

I should have the second part finished in a couple of days hopefully

cheers steve

Sorry but putting together the controller PDF is taking longer than I expected Hopefully it will be soon, I have compiled the overlays , the schematics, the PCB artwork, the Box layout and the parts list all i have left to do is write up the instructions

cheers steve

 

[Tony]

Great work Malted.... thatks for that.

2 Pumps...... i have a march 815....... im thinking it will do the job easy with duel pickips and duel returns to get a better coverage of flow and temperature.

Matho....... Im thinking i may use 2 elements as well, and get some of the oil heating elements they have...... longer per watt

PErsonally i cant see any reason to rest the pump..... ither than the pumps being cheap and having a crap duty cycle...... they probably need to "rest" to cool down and stop from burning out. Something a March pump doesnt suffer from.

 

[matho]

Hey Tony,

the pump that the Braumeister uses is a Vortex BW 152

it looks like the specs on them is

Technical data:
Operating voltage: 230 V
Rpm: 2700 rpm
Power draw: max. 25 W
May. operating pressure: 10 bar
Temperature resistance: 95 C
Max. flow rate: 640 l/h
Max delivery height: 1.25 m

so an 815 would have it covered
the BW 152 is a hot water recirculating pump so it should be able handle continuous pumping, so I think the pump rests are for another reason. When i did my one brew on the braumiser it looked like the pump rest allowed the grain to settle and allow new paths thru the gain bed to form but i don't really know

cheers steve

 

[Malted]

Thanks for the photo's and info Malted. Would you be able to please tell me what the thickness of the filter plates are? I'm not sure what thickness material to use to ensure the they're rigid enough to withstand the pressure applied by the pumps. This would give me something to work from.
Thanks,
Hosko

I don't have a vernier caliper or such to measure them. You certainly would have trouble bending them. I put a tape on them (the best measuring device I have!) and they look pretty much spot on 2mm thick with 3mm perforated holes. They're quite heavy too, one is 1.05kg and one is 1.09kg.

 

[Malted]

Great work Malted.... thatks for that.

2 Pumps...... i have a march 815....... im thinking it will do the job easy with duel pickips and duel returns to get a better coverage of flow and temperature.

Matho....... Im thinking i may use 2 elements as well, and get some of the oil heating elements they have...... longer per watt

PErsonally i cant see any reason to rest the pump..... ither than the pumps being cheap and having a crap duty cycle...... they probably need to "rest" to cool down and stop from burning out. Something a March pump doesnt suffer from.

Make sure the pump pick-ups don't fight! :lol:

Two elements: I guess it depends on the volume of your device. The 20L BM probably could do a boil volume of 30+ L and only has one element and is only 10Amps (max of 2,400 watts) . My 3V HLT has a Craft Brewer 2,200 watt stick element and will boil 40L.

Yeah I would think the pump rest is as Matho said about letting the grain bed settle, sounds reasonable.

 

[hosko11]

When i did my one brew on the braumiser it looked like the pump rest allowed the grain to settle and allow new paths thru the gain bed to form but i don't really know

This was the theory I read somewhere - possibly in the main BM thread on AHB or homebrewtalk. Depending on the quantity of grain and crush I could imagine the grain bed could possibly range anywhere from being to compacted to forming significant channeling, so as Matho says pausing the pump lets the grain re-settle and then form a new grain bed when pumping resumes.

 

[hosko11]

I don't have a vernier caliper or such to measure them. You certainly would have trouble bending them. I put a tape on them (the best measuring device I have!) and they look pretty much spot on 2mm thick with 3mm perforated holes. They're quite heavy too, one is 1.05kg and one is 1.09kg.

Thanks Malted. I have seen the 20L ones in the flesh and thinking back 2mm would seem about right. I wouldn't have guessed the 50L one to come in at 1kg though!! that's pretty hefty.
Cheers,
Hosko

 

[Malted]

2 Pumps...... i have a march 815....... im thinking it will do the job easy with duel pickips and duel returns to get a better coverage of flow and temperature.

Matho....... Im thinking i may use 2 elements as well, and get some of the oil heating elements they have...... longer per watt

Tony, I have been thinking about this for a while.

I recently had some communication with the manufacturer of the pumps on the BM. I thought they are good because they are very easy to dissassemble in situ and by hand. The manufacturer informs me they have no agents in Australia and that one pump would cost 105.30 Euro plus 86.85 Euro for delivery to Aus (or about $192 AUD today). Similar specs to a March pump perhaps, similar price? Smaller German unit versus larger American unit. Smaller may be easier to incorporate into a build.

From what I have heard, there is quite a bit of deadspace between the bottom filter plate and the base of the unit that is neccessary given the element under the bottom filter plate. Some have said that the 50L model with the 'short malt pipe' for 20L really is more like a 30L thingy because of having to be raised above the inside element. If you were wanting a small batch machine I don't think having an element under the malt pipe would be advantageous. I think one element between the malt pipe and the vessel wall would be better and would allow the malt pipe to be lowered for a smaller volume. The outside element heats the liquid, it is drawn down through the pump and up into the grain, minimal heat loss after the pump comes up to temp and not much of a chance of it being scortched since it is being pumped. Comparitevely, RIMS systems only have one element to heat the wort that is pumped through the grain. Two elements are probably a neat thing for large volumes but not required for small volumes, i'd imagine.

Why do I care? Well now that I have a 50L BM (and loving it I might add) and can see, examine and pull it apart, I am thinking yeah I could build a 10L volume jobby for experiemental brews (also fuelled by threads such as this). That's why I am interested in helping you guys nut it out, just in case I too decide to build a small volume jobby too.

 

[matho]

Thanks for all the information malted, I would have loved to get one of those pumps but getting it here seemed too much a PITA to do

cheers matho

 

[Tony]

Some great discussion in this thread amd Malted...... thanks for your input!

Pump: The BM pump is rated to 640 L/hr.... which is 10.6 L/min at max 1.25m head.

March 815 is rated at 30L/min at max 4.1m head.

http://www.tescopumps.com/servlet/the-225/...-809BRHS/Detail

Thats basicly like having 3 of the BM pumps....... im planning on a ball valve on the pump outlet to throtle it back if i need to. I dont think the single pump will be a problem.

Elements....... I have had thesame thoughts as you............ I plan on using the system for 54 liter batches, 9 to 11Kg or grain in the mash. I believe the 50L BM holds the bottom plate up 90mm from the base, and i have re-planned my rig with this raised base plate in the drawings. It reduces my mash volume by about 2 liters which i can live with.

I was concerned about using a high wattage element on just the outer ring, as it would not heat evenly depending on mash flow rates, pump inlet point ect........ so duel elements (2000w in the malt tube and 2750 outside @ 33KW/meter (about 7 meters of elements)) and duel pump inlets and outlets at the pot base should give me a more consistant heating effect, and bugger all scorching if i want to step the temp fast.

I want the extra power to be able to step fast if i want, and get to boil faster.......... Id rather be looking at it and turning it down, than looking for it and cursing!

God bless PID control

 

[the_new_darren]

Correct me if I am wrong but..........the Braumeister works almost like an upside-down mash?

If thats the case, then resting the pumps to "establish" a new grain bed would result in relocation of the smaller particles.

I reckon its to stop clogging of the "screens" with the smaller particles (ie stuck mash)

cheers

tnd

 

[matho]

Well here it is the whole build i hope everything is OK i have tried hard to make sure it is correct

View attachment The_Braumiser_build.zip

hope you enjoy

cheers steve

 

[bignath]

Well here it is the whole build i hope everything is OK i have tried hard to make sure it is correct

View attachment 49886

hope you enjoy

cheers steve

Mate, you are a legend.

This is surely gonna be the most downloaded attachment ever.

Thanks so much for all of your hard work in paving the way so that those that are interested in this style of automation in a brewery can have a go at doing it ourselves.

Many thanks fella,

Nathan

 

[stux]

Some great discussion in this thread amd Malted...... thanks for your input!

Pump: The BM pump is rated to 640 L/hr.... which is 10.6 L/min at max 1.25m head.

March 815 is rated at 30L/min at max 4.1m head.

http://www.tescopumps.com/servlet/the-225/...-809BRHS/Detail

Thats basicly like having 3 of the BM pumps....... im planning on a ball valve on the pump outlet to throtle it back if i need to. I dont think the single pump will be a problem.

Elements....... I have had thesame thoughts as you............ I plan on using the system for 54 liter batches, 9 to 11Kg or grain in the mash. I believe the 50L BM holds the bottom plate up 90mm from the base, and i have re-planned my rig with this raised base plate in the drawings. It reduces my mash volume by about 2 liters which i can live with.

I was concerned about using a high wattage element on just the outer ring, as it would not heat evenly depending on mash flow rates, pump inlet point ect........ so duel elements (2000w in the malt tube and 2750 outside @ 33KW/meter (about 7 meters of elements)) and duel pump inlets and outlets at the pot base should give me a more consistant heating effect, and bugger all scorching if i want to step the temp fast.

I want the extra power to be able to step fast if i want, and get to boil faster.......... Id rather be looking at it and turning it down, than looking for it and cursing!

God bless PID control

If you modified the inlet shape so it sortof sucked at an angle would it create a small whirlpool effect and thus keep the wort moving around the heating elements?

 

[hirns]

The pumps look to be a similar size to the Grunfos UP 15-14 which recirculates hot water for my solar system. The Grunfos is probable cost prohibited but I bet that there is a cheaper knock off version.

 

[Cocko]

Mate, you are a legend.

This is surely gonna be the most downloaded attachment ever.

Thanks so much for all of your hard work in paving the way so that those that are interested in this style of automation in a brewery can have a go at doing it ourselves.

Many thanks fella,

Nathan

I could say it so much better but just can't at the moment because.. of .... umm. stuff.

So will +1 or as above or 'this' to Big Naths comment as it will be felt by most, well said Nat!

Great ******* work Matho and thanks for the effort and contribution, that will be forever giving to the brewer hood!

:icon_cheers:

 

[Tony]

If you modified the inlet shape so it sortof sucked at an angle would it create a small whirlpool effect and thus keep the wort moving around the heating elements?

If im turning over a good amount of liquid...........and have a low KW/meter element it should be fine........ but something i have thought of...... as maybe a future mod..... overflow pikup with angled pipe returnes to the bottom..... to reduce splashing and angle the return for a wirlpool effect