Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[Fabrizio]

Nobody mentioned about a safety contactor in the power line that goes to the element. Eventually the SSR may leak some power and it can be dangerous.
Does anybody included this feature in the control box?

 

[Edak]

Nobody mentioned about a safety contactor in the power line that goes to the element. Eventually the SSR may leak some power and it can be dangerous.
Does anybody included this feature in the control box?

please explain?

If you mean an RCD then it has been mentioned before. Ensure you have a safety switch or an online RCD.

 

[micbrew]

hi guys

im in the process of building a bm clone
and am wondering what is the best method of securing the 12mm s/steel rod to the base of my mash tun

drill hole and use hex lock nuts with silicone washers to seal
as this will be what the top and bottom filter plates will be used as a locating pin
could be prone to leaking :unsure:

or is there a better method

 

[MastersBrewery]

hi guys

im in the process of building a bm clone
and am wondering what is the best method of securing the 12mm s/steel rod to the base of my mash tun

drill hole and use hex lock nuts with silicone washers to seal
as this will be what the top and bottom filter plates will be used as a locating pin
could be prone to leaking :unsure:

or is there a better method

as you describe as yet I have not heard of any one with leaking probs

 

[Edak]

Use thread tape where necessary too. Silicone washers work against the flats.

 

[Cocko]

Hi Guys,

I am in the process of frequenting a forum... and this thread use to supply some inspirational stuff.

Any chance you guys have cameras? or are actually building something?

Just asking.

h34r:

 

[Edak]

Hi Guys,

I am in the process of frequenting a forum... and this thread use to supply some inspirational stuff.

Any chance you guys have cameras? or are actually building something?

Just asking.

h34r:

Damn right, everyone has seen my build, I want to see some of yours...

 

[Cocko]

TWSS.

 

[Fabrizio]

please explain?

If you mean an RCD then it has been mentioned before. Ensure you have a safety switch or an online RCD.

Edak,
Sorry if i did not make myself clear. In portuguese contactor and relay are the same.
In several electric control panels there are relays that can power or disable the heating elements.
Those relays are used to change between vessels (like HLT and Boil) and to disable the heating element for safety issues.
We know that the cheap Chinese SSR (and even the better ones) can leak some current when they should be off.
This can be dangerous and despite the RCD / GFCI and other protection devices, it is very common to use this relays as another safety measure as you can disable physically the element.
These relays are also commonly used in conjunction with an emergency push button to disable the power supply of the circuit.
Thanks
Fabrizio

 

[Edak]

If you are implying using a physical relay in series with the SSR then you are crazy. I have never seen it before.

 

[Fabrizio]

If you are implying using a physical relay in series with the SSR then you are crazy. I have never seen it before.

Here's one...

And another. Now you have seen it. And i'm not crazy.
The ability to disable the heating element is a constant issue in all wiring diagrams in Electric Brewing section of Home Brew Talk. All diagrams show a contactor for this.
Look for "list of P-J diagrams" and you will see it.
But, nevermind. Thanks.
Fabrizio

 

[djar007]

So are you talking about an emergency stop fabrizio? If not I would have thought that the Arduino unit would act as a relay or switch to break the live wire. I thought that was the reason for not switching the neutral? Interested to read more on this. Regards dave.

 

[Edak]

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1393293265.031355.jpg
Here's one...

ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1393293312.527230.jpg
And another. Now you have seen it. And i'm not crazy.
The ability to disable the heating element is a constant issue in all wiring diagrams in Electric Brewing section of Home Brew Talk. All diagrams show a contactor for this.
Look for "list of P-J diagrams" and you will see it.
But, nevermind. Thanks.
Fabrizio

Nah still crazy! (you know that's a joke right?) Remember that HBT is still a forum of people with opinions just as we are a forum of people with opinions, none are immediately considered right but that being said, from my observation, nowhere in that 31-page HBT thread does it mention leakage current of the SSR's. The SSR is to combine with an 'override' button that disconnects both active and neutral. It's perfectly acceptable to only turn one off (see my attached image from the same thread) thus the relay is not necessary.

Yes, it's true that an SSR, while off will allow close to 1/1000 of the current pass through, which means a couple of milliamps from Active to Neutral. Protecting yourself from this seems pointless in the event that you have an RCD because the user will never, ever, ever be exposed to the few milliamps. If they were exposed then they would have worse problems such as when the SSR is on and the full current is flowing!

Now you could have an override (switch or contactor in your case) because it does add an additional layer of safety. Do you see one in the original BM? No. Do you see it in 90% of SSR applications? No. Should you use it if you have hard-wired your panel (no IEC lead)? Probably... Am I going to do it? No. My manual override is the power cord, which is just as good if not better than an override switch.

 

[lael]

I was going to comment that most brau boxes will have the cord with a socket - can pull out in an emergency. And in Aus the main switch already has breakers built in. Fabrizio - I think you talking about building another breaker into the unit itself? How much of an advantage is that vs the breaker built into the switchboard? Honestly - with electricity... why not is one of my thoughts - if it makes you safer / feel safer.

 

[dblunn]

Just to add my 2c. It makes sense to add some control circuitry when you have a wall mounted control box feeding multiple heating elements like seen in a brew sculpture where you want to ensure only one element is powered at an time. With the BM it is a stand alone unit with a single vessel being heated so the complexity is not really warranted.

As far as safety goes, well the failure modes are 1. short circuit (active to neutral) - large current flow trips CB, 2. small leakage current (active to earth) trips RCD. 3. Cooked because of no water in vessel, goes open circuit or possibly case 1 or 2.

If you plan on opening up the box for any reason then you would first unplug it from the wall. Also every component added to the system is another possible point of failure, but you of course free to build it as you see fit.
Regards, Dave

 

[Fabrizio]

Nah still crazy! (you know that's a joke right?) Remember that HBT is still a forum of people with opinions just as we are a forum of people with opinions, none are immediately considered right but that being said, from my observation, nowhere in that 31-page HBT thread does it mention leakage current of the SSR's. The SSR is to combine with an 'override' button that disconnects both active and neutral. It's perfectly acceptable to only turn one off (see my attached image from the same thread) thus the relay is not necessary.

Yes, it's true that an SSR, while off will allow close to 1/1000 of the current pass through, which means a couple of milliamps from Active to Neutral. Protecting yourself from this seems pointless in the event that you have an RCD because the user will never, ever, ever be exposed to the few milliamps. If they were exposed then they would have worse problems such as when the SSR is on and the full current is flowing!

Now you could have an override (switch or contactor in your case) because it does add an additional layer of safety. Do you see one in the original BM? No. Do you see it in 90% of SSR applications? No. Should you use it if you have hard-wired your panel (no IEC lead)? Probably... Am I going to do it? No. My manual override is the power cord, which is just as good if not better than an override switch.

Edak, I`m a homebrewer. Yes, crazy! hahahaha

I was going to comment that most brau boxes will have the cord with a socket - can pull out in an emergency. And in Aus the main switch already has breakers built in. Fabrizio - I think you talking about building another breaker into the unit itself? How much of an advantage is that vs the breaker built into the switchboard? Honestly - with electricity... why not is one of my thoughts - if it makes you safer / feel safer.

Just to add my 2c. It makes sense to add some control circuitry when you have a wall mounted control box feeding multiple heating elements like seen in a brew sculpture where you want to ensure only one element is powered at an time. With the BM it is a stand alone unit with a single vessel being heated so the complexity is not really warranted.

As far as safety goes, well the failure modes are 1. short circuit (active to neutral) - large current flow trips CB, 2. small leakage current (active to earth) trips RCD. 3. Cooked because of no water in vessel, goes open circuit or possibly case 1 or 2.

If you plan on opening up the box for any reason then you would first unplug it from the wall. Also every component added to the system is another possible point of failure, but you of course free to build it as you see fit.
Regards, Dave

Edak, Lael and Dave,
My major concern is because of a few physical limitations on my house where my brew sculpture/setup will be will at least 5/6 meters away from the power outlet, so unplugging it in an emergency will be very time consuming and can cause major problems. I`m trying to avoid possible (eventual) problems in this build.
I have built another electrical control panel with that have this kind of safety device, and I was just keeping the same thinking because of the distance from the outlet.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77687-need-help-for-my-panel-220v-no-neutral-and-limited-power-input/
Thanks
Fabrizio

 

[MastersBrewery]

I think most of these systems are only using 240v 10amp supplies, so wouldn't a simple 240v switch on the incomming hot leg suffice?

 

[pat_00]

So, after fooling around with a top draining bagless BIAB type setup I've decided to restart this project. After a lot of stuck mashes and draining problems with my last setup, I see the attraction of pumping upwards through the grain bed.

To simplify things (or maybe not), I have bought the braumeister top and bottom filter plates and seal from G&G. Now all I really need to finish this project is a pipe for the malt tube.

Does anyone know where I can find stainless 270mm diameter pipe/tube? I'm not having much luck...

 

[tateg]

So, after fooling around with a top draining bagless BIAB type setup I've decided to restart this project. After a lot of stuck mashes and draining problems with my last setup, I see the attraction of pumping upwards through the grain bed.

To simplify things (or maybe not), I have bought the braumeister top and bottom filter plates and seal from G&G. Now all I really need to finish this project is a pipe for the malt tube.

Does anyone know where I can find stainless 270mm diameter pipe/tube? I'm not having much luck...

G&G will also sell the BM 20L Malt Pipe

 

[spog]

So, after fooling around with a top draining bagless BIAB type setup I've decided to restart this project. After a lot of stuck mashes and draining problems with my last setup, I see the attraction of pumping upwards through the grain bed.

To simplify things (or maybe not), I have bought the braumeister top and bottom filter plates and seal from G&G. Now all I really need to finish this project is a pipe for the malt tube.

Does anyone know where I can find stainless 270mm diameter pipe/tube? I'm not having much luck...

I have not payed too much attention to this topic, so dunno if this is any good but what about some stainless steel flue or maybe cutting the bottom of a cheap stock pot .?
Cheers...spog...