• We have implemented the ability to gift someone a Supporting Membership now! When you access the Upgrade page there is now a 'Gift' button. Once you click that you can enter a username to gift an account Upgrade to. Great way to help support this forum plus give some kudos to anyone who has helped you.

Bottling and Storing Lagers

Aussie Home Brewer

Help Support Aussie Home Brewer:

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
I have had my lager in the fridge at 1c for some time now and today I am going to bottle. I have heard conflicting advise on how to store bottled lagers. Some have suggested that once bottled keep and store in the fridge (8 weeks or so) so that there is no real secondary fermentation in the bottle. Other has suggested to just bottle and keep in a warm/dry place (as ales would be done) and store them that way?

Any info on this?
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
did you bring your brew up to room temp for diacletic rest? ( yep i have prob spelt that wrong :( )
i have read that ""lagering "( german word for storing) depends on what you want to do
mostly heard that anything up to six weeks lagering at 2deg c then glug glug .......mmmmmmm :lol:
suggest you try one every 2 weeks to see what difference there is
am also about to bottle lager ( on mon) let me know how you go
and i will do the same experiment , drink one every 2 weeks ( unless its so nice idrink 3 - 4 :lol: )

cheers :chug:

simon
 

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
Yeah it did come out for its rest.

So store in bottles at 1-2c right?
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
yep thats what i have been told / read

also how long you had it in the fridge ?
and at wat temp
 

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
it's been 2 weeks at 1c - maybe i should leave it longer?
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
from what i understand, you should probably only have to bottle and leave in fridge for approx 4 weeks , (at 1- 2 deg c ) i was told buy a few guys at home brew club meet that whether you lager in the ferm. or in the bottle is personal choice some said just bottle it and lager for 4-6 weeks others said dont worry leave in secondary ferm dial fridge down to 1-2 deg c ( as you have done ) and leave 4 - 6 weeks
i am going to bottle and lager ( in bottles ) for a further 4-6 weeks
mine has been in secondary ( after ferm complete of course ) for 1 week ( on mon coming) so the way i figure it 1 wk in secondary ferm + 4 wk in bottle = 5 wks lagering
so if you bottle and lager for four wks you shoud be rite
let me know how it goes


simon :chug:
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
ps
one thing i would do though , if you do leave it in secondary ferm . ( for 4 - 6 wks ) when you do bottle i would lager those bottles for 2 wks in fridge

simon
 

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
OK I'm probably going to bottle them today - need to use the fermenter for a new batch - but I will keep the bottles in the fridge for a month or so.

When you start your lager do you let it start fermenting and then put it in the fridge? Or do you pitch the yeast and put it staight into fridge and wait for fermenting?
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
when i pitched yeast in to ferm the temp was about 18 deg c ( should have been approx 15 max ) i had a lot of probs getting temp down . :(
was very hot day
anyway what you are supposed to do is get the wort down to approx your yeasts max temp at least ( mine was saflager w30/75 max temp 15deg)

i rehydrated yeast .. got wort temp down as much as i could , pitched yeast then put in the fridge , fridge was set at 12 deg , by next morn i had temp at approx 14 deg and krausen forming indicating yeast activity
i have heard that yeasts have a type of inertia , and they will try and stay at the temp they are pitched at .
( not sure about this one but have read it somewhere)

happy bottling :D

:chug:
simon
 

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
I put a new batch on yeasterday - an ESB Bavarian Lager with some grains - i pitched at around 22c - thought the sxtra warmth would get them going for the cold lager. That was yesterdsay at 4ish.

No bubbles yet - overnight it has cooled to 12c where I will keep it. Would have thought it would have started bubbling by now, although maybe the colder temps make it a little slower to take off. Do you think I will see bubbles soon?
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
have you got any krausen forming ? foam on surface?
this is a better indication of fermentation than bubbles
i have had brews that have never bubbled that have fermd fine
what sorta fermentor do you have ?
my push down lid , plastic bucket type hardly ever gives me bubbles but works fine
my screw top on the other hand ( as long as i get the lid screwed down properly ;) ) bubbles away every time

obviously wait a couple days and check the gravity against your O.G. for a real indication

simon :chug:
 

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
Yeah I guess your right - they are little bubbles starting to form on top.....and it hasn;t even een 24hrs - I think PMyers mentions in another thread, that your hydrometer is your scientific tool not your airlock - so I guess I should keep that in mind as well.
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
fiscus in regards to your pitching temp for your yeast check out what regbadgery has to say in regards to the german yeast law . apparently the pitching temp and the fermentation temp should equal 30 deg this was for wheat beers but i have asked the question re all beers ?


simon
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
in the recipes and ingrediants ,forum under wheat beer

f y i

cheers :chug:

simon
 

bL@De

Well-Known Member
Joined
6/12/02
Messages
112
Reaction score
3
At the top of this thread someone mentioned the following

did you bring your brew up to room temp for diacletic rest?

I have an ale in the fridge after being in 1st stage fermentation for 2 weeks, I will leave it in there for 4 weeks after some advice from Tom Smit, what does this diacletic or however it's spelt do? What do I do should be the question I'm asking :)
 

PMyers

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
205
Reaction score
4
Diacetyl is an ester (or enzyme perhaps? I can't remember which at the moment) that mostly effects beers brewed at lower temperatures (ie. lagers, pilsners etc...). It taste resembles that of buttered popcorn and it is generally reduced by bringing the beer up to a warmer temperature for a few days at the very end of fermentation. This is done to spur the yeast into another activity period, but this time instead of going to work against fermentable sugars, they attack the diacetyl, changing its properties and effectively turning it into something else entirely (IIRC). As far as I am aware, diacetyl is not found too regularly in ales, and when it is there is not a lot that can be done about it (can someone out there back me up on this last ststement, or even contradict?).
So in closing, what you should do for your ale is nothing. If you had brewed at colder temperatures, then I would suggest a diacetyl rest as explained above, but having brewed at room temperature and then brought your brew down to fridge temps I doubt seriously that you would have anything to worry about.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:
 

sboulton

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/12/02
Messages
82
Reaction score
2
ah ha someone that can spell ..... :lol:

unlike meself :D
 

SIMO

Active Member
Joined
12/12/02
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
Tips for yeast,

Oxengenate wort properly before pitching (the more in there the stronger the ferm)
Always pitch enough yeast
Lager yeasts quite often have a longer lag time that ales.
Make starter to ensure high cell count and proof yeast. (48 hrs before brew day is good)
I make starters at 15-18c .When they show activity i cool them slowly (2-8 hrs) to fermentation temp 10-12c lagers, 16-18c ales. At high krausen i pitch into wort at the same temp thus avoiding temp shock.

The problem with warm pitching is that your'e cooling the wort at the same time as the yeast is "waking up" to ferment. By waking the yeast in a starter first you are avoiding such a long lag time and you are pitching enough "active cells" to reduce lag time to acceptable limits (6-24 hrs).

Yeast consume o2 first during the lag phase (respiration) and reproduce then move on to the malt sugars etc (anerobic phase). This is when they start to produce co2/alcohols.

If you pitch a yeast and it starts fermenting straight (1-3 hrs) away chances are that there is not enough o2 in the wort for the yeast to grow it's numbers up and you will get a underattenuated finished beer.

Saflager, (sacromyces carlsbergenis) yeast isn't to bad as far as dried yeasts go and it's sweet spot is absolutley 12c. (liquid yeasts taste a whole lot better though and are purer)

So my suggestion for saflager (if you want to warm pitch) is to get the yeast going first then drop temp to appropriate ferm temp. (Probably the next day)

The reason i pitch at 10-12c is to avoid possible mutations of the lager yeast during the respiration phase into more fruity ale types of yeasts. Yeast that has reproduced at 10-12c will ferment at 10-12c no probs, yeast that reproduced at 18c could have probs at lower temps.

Any questions
SiMo


:rolleyes:
 

SIMO

Active Member
Joined
12/12/02
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
Oh yeah ,

Yeast also produces a fair bit of heat (as much as 2-4c) as a byproduct of fermentation especially Ale yeasts at high krausen so your fridge/cooler temp has to take this into account when trying to achieve appropiate ferm temps inside the fermenter.
SiMo :rolleyes:
 

dane

Member
Joined
3/12/02
Messages
3,876
Reaction score
464
SIMO said:
Tips for yeast,

Oxengenate wort properly before pitching (the more in there the stronger the ferm)
Always pitch enough yeast
Lager yeasts quite often have a longer lag time that ales.
Make starter to ensure high cell count and proof yeast. (48 hrs before brew day is good)
I make starters at 15-18c .When they show activity i cool them slowly (2-8 hrs) to fermentation temp 10-12c lagers, 16-18c ales. At high krausen i pitch into wort at the same temp thus avoiding temp shock.

The problem with warm pitching is that your'e cooling the wort at the same time as the yeast is "waking up" to ferment. By waking the yeast in a starter first you are avoiding such a long lag time and you are pitching enough "active cells" to reduce lag time to acceptable limits (6-24 hrs).

Yeast consume o2 first during the lag phase (respiration) and reproduce then move on to the malt sugars etc (anerobic phase). This is when they start to produce co2/alcohols.

If you pitch a yeast and it starts fermenting straight (1-3 hrs) away chances are that there is not enough o2 in the wort for the yeast to grow it's numbers up and you will get a underattenuated finished beer.

Saflager, (sacromyces carlsbergenis) yeast isn't to bad as far as dried yeasts go and it's sweet spot is absolutley 12c. (liquid yeasts taste a whole lot better though and are purer)

So my suggestion for saflager (if you want to warm pitch) is to get the yeast going first then drop temp to appropriate ferm temp. (Probably the next day)

The reason i pitch at 10-12c is to avoid possible mutations of the lager yeast during the respiration phase into more fruity ale types of yeasts. Yeast that has reproduced at 10-12c will ferment at 10-12c no probs, yeast that reproduced at 18c could have probs at lower temps.

Any questions
SiMo


:rolleyes:
There is some great info here!!! Thanks alot SIMO.


I think the problems I have been having with my yeast is the pitching at higher temps then cooling - a problem that u mentioned.

If someone wanted to get into liquid yeasts - what is the best way to do so?

How do you make your starters? Maybe I can try a liquid next time instead of my dry Saflager.
 
2
Top