Bottle Infection

[Florian]

Seems like my first ever batch ended in a disaster. I am still trying to figure out what exactly went wrong, and at which stage of the process.
Have put down a coopers european lager with a hallertau tea bag about 7 weeks ago. Most of my bottles came as a "donation" from the local pub, I have soaked them for a few days in dishwashing detergent and then worked on them with a bottle brush/cordless drill combo. Then rinsing, starsan, packed away in cardboard boxes and starsan again just before bottling. Obviously, the dishwashing liquid isn't the best and PBW is already on the shopping list.
But as I write, I actually remember that I initially bottled 8 bottles only, all of them look fine. I bottled the rest later, so something must have gone wrong in between, possibly my pvc hose or little bottler.
Anyway, a just about to rack my 2nd brew (Centenniarillo) into a willow cube with finings, so will make sure everything is extra clean. Will probably put the gear into the baby bottle steam steriliser.

 

[Muggus]

:icon_vomit:
That looks rank!!!

Did you try your brew before bottling? Have a look in fermenter?

By the sound of it the bottles SHOULD have been alright. Did you look in the bottles before bottling for clumps of mould? That never helps.
Also, I notice that some of your bottles are clear glass, which isn't going to help your cause...they get easy light struck and become skunky very quickly.

 

[glaab]

PBW is a bit expensive for cleaning bottles, try some pink stain cleaner it's good stuff. Soak for a few days and they'll just need a rinse no matter how cruddy they are.
What do you mean you bottled the rest later?, did you sanitize the tap and little bottler before you re-started bottling?

 

[Steve]

Id be turfing them quickly before they blow up

 

[peas_and_corn]

I've always had a practice of throwing away any bottle that had infected beer in it, to avoid infections from infiltrating my brewery. I really agree with the above posts, get rid of it before you get some explosions.

 

[stew.w]

wow that looks feral, did you sanitise the caps?

 

[theMISSIONARY]

If its all of the bottles i would be looking at the fermenter!

 

[white.grant]

Wow, you should have some good mushrooms anyway.

Quite a strange look, to get that much active mould growth without blowing out bottles is unusual. Apart from the cleanliness issues already mentioned, are you getting an effective seal when capping? Some of your bottles look like poor choices for beer so you may not have an airtight seal.

Better luck with your next brew.

cheers

grant

 

[Florian]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Muggus: Yes, I have tried the brew straight out of the fermenter, it tasted fine. As I said, the fist 8 bottles are fine, I then bottled the rest a few days later. No clumps in bottles as far as I remember. I know clear glass is not the ideal choice, but I keep them in absolute darkness, so it shouldn't be an issue.

glaab: I suspect that I did not clean the hose and bottler properly after using it the first time. I have starsan'ed it, but that was obviously not enough.

Steve and peas: That would've been my next question. Will go down now and de cap all of them.

Stew: All caps have been bathed in Starsan and taken right out of the solution onto the bottle and capped.

Missionary: The fermentor looked pretty disgusting, but I wouldn't expect anything else after it has been standing for two days (that's when I looked into it and gave it a good clean).

Grantw: I turned all bottles sideways and upside down after capping to make sure they had no leaks.

As a result, I am pretty sure that it must have either been the hose or bottler or that something got into the fermentor between first and second bottle day. I guess I should just be more careful and bottle in one go, rather than having a few days break in between. My excuse was that I was on crutches at that time and couldn't physically get more than 8 bottles done standing on one leg.

Anyway, I am sure it will get better from now on. It was only the first learning brew anyway, did not eally expect much of it.

 

[theredone]

it pains me to say.... throw that **** away.

the impresion i got from reading your post u have bottled 8 and they were fine? then had a break and rest were ****?(u you would stop and resume later i do not know)

if thats the case a number of things could have gone wrong. did u at anystage forget to re-remove the airlock?(stale crappy water may have bin sucked in while bottling)

did you forget to put the airlock back on during your break?(for obvious reasons this is bad)

highly doubt it was from your caps as first 8 were fine but still u didnt mention washing them so make sure this is done(i forgot my first time to do caps)

next time i would suggest going from start to finish bottling

 

[Florian]

it pains me to say.... throw that **** away.

the impresion i got from reading your post u have bottled 8 and they were fine? then had a break and rest were ****?(u you would stop and resume later i do not know)

if thats the case a number of things could have gone wrong. did u at anystage forget to re-remove the airlock?(stale crappy water may have bin sucked in while bottling)

did you forget to put the airlock back on during your break?(for obvious reasons this is bad)

highly doubt it was from your caps as first 8 were fine but still u didnt mention washing them so make sure this is done(i forgot my first time to do caps)

next time i would suggest going from start to finish bottling

theredone, I do not use an airlock, threw out the lid and used glad wrap and the rubber ring instead. Obviously, when bottling the first time I had to take the glad wrap off as it got sucked in when bottling, so there could be a good source for infection too.

 

[unrealeous]

But as I write, I actually remember that I initially bottled 8 bottles only, all of them look fine. I bottled the rest later, so something must have gone wrong in between, possibly my pvc hose or little bottler.

When you take 8 bottles out of your fermenter, the space gets replaced with air from the atmosphere which contains airborn nasties, and given enough time it will all go bad.

Anyway, a good lesson learnt no doubt - sanitation is key. A pretty impressive batch of mold though...

 

[kelbygreen]

did you replace the glad wrap with new sheets when you took it off??? also was it in the fridge?? I found I had to take mine out of the fridge carefully before bottling as all the ice on the freezer melts and drips down. Other then that you seemed to be doing most things right. Maybe clean and sanitise your tap before bottling (i do this) just get a spray bottle and spray it with napisan or something then spray with clean water then spray sanitiser in there (obviously with the tap closed just spray up the tap as best you can)

 

[Cube]

Just punch the glad wrap half a dozen times with a clean knife. That allows enough air to be drawn in to bottle without removing the glad wrap. Don't forget the little bottler is a 3 piece unit. Did you remove the end cap ( blue bit ) and clean the springy bit and seat?

 

[white.grant]

When you take 8 bottles out of your fermenter, the space gets replaced with air from the atmosphere which contains airborn nasties, and given enough time it will all go bad.

Anyway, a good lesson learnt no doubt - sanitation is key. A pretty impressive batch of mold though...

Yeah, try to bottle in one go next time. Reduce fermented wort contact time with ambient air to an absolute minimum and you should be fine. Have everything you will need clean and sanitised before you break the Co2 seal on your fermenter and go like the wind to have bottles filled and capped asap

cheers

grant

 

[Florian]

unrealous, that makes perfectly sense, didn't think about that.

Kelbygreen, I only took a little edge of the glad wrap off, just lifted it a little so air could get through. I always drench the tap in starsan mix (I use de-mineralised water so the mix lasts longer in the spray bottle) so everything flows out. Then I wipe the fridge floor.

Cube, not comfortable with making holes into the glad wrap, at least not before fermentation. Maybe just when I am about to bottle. Did not know the bottler comes apart, will have a look at that, thanks.

Grantw, will do, no crutches anymore so nothing holding me back from bottling in one go.

Have just de-capped about fifty bottles, some of them were literally fuming with the beer flowing over.
Thanks for all your advise guys, lessons learned. Have just racked my second brew onto gelantine, time will tell if it went well.

 

[Fourstar]

looks kinda like the beginning of a pellicle! :icon_drool2:

 

[Scruffy]

Right. There's FAR too much hysteria on this thread.

It's a variant of Acetobacter. In time it'll turn your beer into vinegar. It requires oxygen to thrive. That's why it's sitting on top. You could give your bottles a gentle shake to break up the crust, it'll then sink to the bottom (and die an oxygen starved death), and you can drink your brew...
Doubtless it got in whilst exposed to the air (or off 'dirty' equipment - by which I don't mean accuse the OP of smearing his fermenter with excrement...).
Are you adding Calcium Carbonate (chalk) to your brew... when the bacteria have produced enough acid this white film will dissolve and you're fooled into thinking it's suddenly got better!
Different ways to solve the problem include:
Sulphur Dioxide (wine preservative) will help,
as will good sanitation,
or you could brew in a vacuum - or at least keep contact with O to a minimum...
Or you could re-enter your brew in a different class, say Flemish (sour) ales.

 

[Florian]

Good advice, Scruffy, thanks!

Unfortunately it's to late to try the gentle shake trick. I had opened and emptied the bottles already a while ago, and this morning I decided to not take any risk and have disposed all the bottles into the recycle bin. Am getting a whole new heap of bottles this afternoon from Sera anyway.
Am now about to sanitise the fridge I stored the bottles in, as I initially only capped them and left them sitting there. Have given the fridge a good wipe down and spray with Starsan, and will now sit the baby bottle steam steriliser into it and give it full steam with closed door for an hour or two. That should hopefully kill everything that has bee alive in there until then.

 

[Cube]

Cube, not comfortable with making holes into the glad wrap, at least not before fermentation. Maybe just when I am about to bottle. Did not know the bottler comes apart, will have a look at that, thanks.

Thanks for all your advise guys, lessons learned. Have just racked my second brew onto gelantine, time will tell if it went well.

Just to clarify I would never punch holes in the wrap during fermentation - never ever for any reason. I just pop a few holes in the wrap with a knife immediately before turning the tap on for bottling. Even 'just lifting the edge' is way too much of a hole needed. The knife punctures ( about three is all I do ) are very small in size but adequate for bottling, thus eliminating even more risk of infection.

Good luck with the next one. I'm sure you will be fine from now on as there is nothing as painfull as tipping a brew out. :icon_cheers: