BIAB: Tipping boil dreggs into the fermenter
- Thread starter InterCooL
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The best advice I can give is to brew 2 identical batches, back to back. Same yeast, grain bill, hopping schedule, fermentation temp. etc but leave the hot break behind in one batch and transfer it all to the fermenter in the other.
Taste the resulting beers. If you prefer the taste of one over the other then keep that in mind when you brew.
For the record, I try to leave most of the break in the kettle. Mostly because, when I transferred the lot, I found that the sediment layer was very close to the tap and it was affecting the clarity of the beer. I could transfer to a secondary but preferred to leave most of the break behind to reduce trub in the FV.
I also use hop pellets without a spider/bag etc and prefer not to transfer the hop material as well.
Finally, with a clear, clean yeast layer, I am able to harvest some good, clean looking yeast. Not that I've seen any evidence that repitching yeast mixed with break and hop matter is an issue. I just like the look of the yeast I collect. Shamelessly unscientific and totally aesthetic.
I enjoy the beer I make, which is also enjoyed by people who know good beer.
Just try to keep an open mind and brew and read as much as you can. Stick to a basic recipe and make small changes here and there. If you don't like the way something tastes and you can identify the step in your process responsible for that, then there's not much more you can ask for.
Taste the resulting beers. If you prefer the taste of one over the other then keep that in mind when you brew.
For the record, I try to leave most of the break in the kettle. Mostly because, when I transferred the lot, I found that the sediment layer was very close to the tap and it was affecting the clarity of the beer. I could transfer to a secondary but preferred to leave most of the break behind to reduce trub in the FV.
I also use hop pellets without a spider/bag etc and prefer not to transfer the hop material as well.
Finally, with a clear, clean yeast layer, I am able to harvest some good, clean looking yeast. Not that I've seen any evidence that repitching yeast mixed with break and hop matter is an issue. I just like the look of the yeast I collect. Shamelessly unscientific and totally aesthetic.
I enjoy the beer I make, which is also enjoyed by people who know good beer.
Just try to keep an open mind and brew and read as much as you can. Stick to a basic recipe and make small changes here and there. If you don't like the way something tastes and you can identify the step in your process responsible for that, then there's not much more you can ask for.
Thanks Barge, good advice
I'd like to do that, try the same recipe twice and see how it goes.
But then other people will probably say that it will also depend on the style of the beer, and other variables too.
In the end of the day, there seems to be far too many different styles of beer and recipes that I wish to try and I just get excited and go and brew a new beer all the time.
For example I just read "Radical Brews" by Mosher and saw a few recipes I want to try. But I had previously read "Bronzed Brews" and found a few there I want to try. Then I speak to my local home brewers club and they give me a recipe or two. Then they say "Oh you like drinking the Batch Brewing APA? Well here's a recipe you need to try:____"
So many brews, and only space for one fermenter in the fermenting fridge!
I'd like to do that, try the same recipe twice and see how it goes.
But then other people will probably say that it will also depend on the style of the beer, and other variables too.
In the end of the day, there seems to be far too many different styles of beer and recipes that I wish to try and I just get excited and go and brew a new beer all the time.
For example I just read "Radical Brews" by Mosher and saw a few recipes I want to try. But I had previously read "Bronzed Brews" and found a few there I want to try. Then I speak to my local home brewers club and they give me a recipe or two. Then they say "Oh you like drinking the Batch Brewing APA? Well here's a recipe you need to try:____"
So many brews, and only space for one fermenter in the fermenting fridge!
I was the same.
In my first few years I never brewed the same beer twice. I learned a lot about beer styles but I think my knowledge and abilty to brew suffered as a result.
After returning from a break from brewing I initially brewed a basic Summer Ale recipe about 6 times and played around with hops. I've done the same with a few different styles and the quality and consistency of my beers has definitely improved.
Members like MHB, Thirsty Boy and Doc Smurto bring a lot of technical knowledge to the forum and should be respected. Others such as Bribie and Qldkev bring years of experience in brewing as well. Take on the advice of these members. I certainly do.
In my first few years I never brewed the same beer twice. I learned a lot about beer styles but I think my knowledge and abilty to brew suffered as a result.
After returning from a break from brewing I initially brewed a basic Summer Ale recipe about 6 times and played around with hops. I've done the same with a few different styles and the quality and consistency of my beers has definitely improved.
Members like MHB, Thirsty Boy and Doc Smurto bring a lot of technical knowledge to the forum and should be respected. Others such as Bribie and Qldkev bring years of experience in brewing as well. Take on the advice of these members. I certainly do.
Jack of all biers
Well-Known Member
Whilst there is no absolutes in life, reducing the hot break content in the fermenter does do more than only reduce trub. On the balance of it all, one shouldn't argue that what MHB is pointing out is mere speculation and has no basis in proof. The articles MHB linked in have the answers:
Extraction and precipitation of tannins/ polyphenols
Simple hop tannins and most malt polyphenols are soluble in boiling wort and moderately soluble in cold water. Tannins/polyphenols are readily oxidised and polymerise to give an increase in molecular weight. Tannin/polyphenols also combine with proteins to form protein/polyphenol complexes:
• Proteins which combine with oxidised polyphenols are insoluble in boiling wort and are therefore precipitated during the boil to form hot break.
• Proteins which combine with unoxidised polyphenols are soluble in boiling wort but precipitate when chilled and can give rise to chill haze and cold break. The polyphenols may subsequently oxidise during beer processing and may produce colloidal instability in packaged beer. Unprocessed hops contribute around 40% of the total polyphenol content to boiled wort, however most hop polyphenols are removed as hot and cold break. The rest of the polyphenols comes from the dry goods, (particularly the husk), and less polymerized and hence less likely to be removed.
I highlight Moderately soluble in cold water and polyphenols for a reason (see conclusion below).
Now in the article on Colloidial stablisation of beer from the same link given by MHB:
Professor J. De Clerck attributes three principal changes which occur in beer and which are brought about by the presence of polyphenols and tannins.
• Increase in haze caused by the precipitation of protein substance.
• Increases in harsh or unpleasant after taste in beer
• Increases in colour, particularly following oxidation.
The first manifestation of the loss of colloidal stability is observed as chill haze, which is a reversible association between small low polymerised polyphenols and proteinaceous material. The tendency to form chill haze progressively increases over time. Oxidation of some polyphenols – flavanoids in particular, lead to the formation of condensed (polymerised) products. These are active precursors in haze formation, leading to permanent (irreversible) haze formation (see illustrations below). To avoid colloidal haze production the brewer has to control the brewing by the selection of brewing materials and production and storage of packaged beer. These steps can be divided into:
• Controlling the protein content of the beer
• Controlling the polyphenol content in the beer
• Controlling the physical conditions in the brewing process
And in a later paragraph on Controlling the protein content of the beer:
The brewer has to strike a balance between reducing protein content to improve colloidal stability and affecting fermentation and beer quality.
Under Controlling the polyphenol content in the beer:
The polyphenols from hops are generally highly polymerised and are precipitated with hot and cold break before filtration and hence have little adverse effect on beer stability.
And (thrown in for good measure as I'm a believer in cold conditioning);
Proteins and polyphenols form complexes at low temperatures, and hence are removed during cold maturation and cold filtration
And under Controlling the brewing process:
Attention to the brewing process can reduce the level of the protein and polyphenols finishing up in the final beer, thus reducing the tendency to produce colloidal instability
Now it's a given that there are two articles in full that go into far more detail about those points and others, however the above does summarise to the observant reader that by reducing the amount of protein break that gets into the fermenter, one reduces the polyphenols from hops and tanins that have polymerised to the hot and cold break. Now given that these are moderately soluble in cold water (wort is mostly water) then they can and will re-disolve back into the wort during the colder conditions of fermentation and can increase the chance of colloidal instability. For those that wonder what colloidal instability is, I suggest reading the above articles in full.
Now will your beer be ruined by having hot break in it, NO. But, understanding that it will be improved in stability, longevity of flavour, reduction of harsh after tastes and reduction of haze by reducing the amount that gets into the fermenter is important to an overall understanding of brewing in general.
My solution to the OP's question is that you could get that pickup tube you suggested, or you could siphon the bulk of the hot break out by siphoning or filtering it out. The simplist way to siphon is to use a kitchen sieve with a sterilised stocking leg wrapped under it and pour your wort through it. This is what I do and as long as you let it gently filter through you will get bright wort running out. This reduces (not eliminates) the hot and cold break (and hops too) from getting into your fermenter.
Extraction and precipitation of tannins/ polyphenols
Simple hop tannins and most malt polyphenols are soluble in boiling wort and moderately soluble in cold water. Tannins/polyphenols are readily oxidised and polymerise to give an increase in molecular weight. Tannin/polyphenols also combine with proteins to form protein/polyphenol complexes:
• Proteins which combine with oxidised polyphenols are insoluble in boiling wort and are therefore precipitated during the boil to form hot break.
• Proteins which combine with unoxidised polyphenols are soluble in boiling wort but precipitate when chilled and can give rise to chill haze and cold break. The polyphenols may subsequently oxidise during beer processing and may produce colloidal instability in packaged beer. Unprocessed hops contribute around 40% of the total polyphenol content to boiled wort, however most hop polyphenols are removed as hot and cold break. The rest of the polyphenols comes from the dry goods, (particularly the husk), and less polymerized and hence less likely to be removed.
I highlight Moderately soluble in cold water and polyphenols for a reason (see conclusion below).
Now in the article on Colloidial stablisation of beer from the same link given by MHB:
Professor J. De Clerck attributes three principal changes which occur in beer and which are brought about by the presence of polyphenols and tannins.
• Increase in haze caused by the precipitation of protein substance.
• Increases in harsh or unpleasant after taste in beer
• Increases in colour, particularly following oxidation.
The first manifestation of the loss of colloidal stability is observed as chill haze, which is a reversible association between small low polymerised polyphenols and proteinaceous material. The tendency to form chill haze progressively increases over time. Oxidation of some polyphenols – flavanoids in particular, lead to the formation of condensed (polymerised) products. These are active precursors in haze formation, leading to permanent (irreversible) haze formation (see illustrations below). To avoid colloidal haze production the brewer has to control the brewing by the selection of brewing materials and production and storage of packaged beer. These steps can be divided into:
• Controlling the protein content of the beer
• Controlling the polyphenol content in the beer
• Controlling the physical conditions in the brewing process
And in a later paragraph on Controlling the protein content of the beer:
The brewer has to strike a balance between reducing protein content to improve colloidal stability and affecting fermentation and beer quality.
Under Controlling the polyphenol content in the beer:
The polyphenols from hops are generally highly polymerised and are precipitated with hot and cold break before filtration and hence have little adverse effect on beer stability.
And (thrown in for good measure as I'm a believer in cold conditioning);
Proteins and polyphenols form complexes at low temperatures, and hence are removed during cold maturation and cold filtration
And under Controlling the brewing process:
Attention to the brewing process can reduce the level of the protein and polyphenols finishing up in the final beer, thus reducing the tendency to produce colloidal instability
Now it's a given that there are two articles in full that go into far more detail about those points and others, however the above does summarise to the observant reader that by reducing the amount of protein break that gets into the fermenter, one reduces the polyphenols from hops and tanins that have polymerised to the hot and cold break. Now given that these are moderately soluble in cold water (wort is mostly water) then they can and will re-disolve back into the wort during the colder conditions of fermentation and can increase the chance of colloidal instability. For those that wonder what colloidal instability is, I suggest reading the above articles in full.
Now will your beer be ruined by having hot break in it, NO. But, understanding that it will be improved in stability, longevity of flavour, reduction of harsh after tastes and reduction of haze by reducing the amount that gets into the fermenter is important to an overall understanding of brewing in general.
My solution to the OP's question is that you could get that pickup tube you suggested, or you could siphon the bulk of the hot break out by siphoning or filtering it out. The simplist way to siphon is to use a kitchen sieve with a sterilised stocking leg wrapped under it and pour your wort through it. This is what I do and as long as you let it gently filter through you will get bright wort running out. This reduces (not eliminates) the hot and cold break (and hops too) from getting into your fermenter.
Tannins and polyphenols are.stated as being moderately soluble. The protein-polyphenol complexes that form as a result of boiling are insoluble. Hence, they precipitate out. The article is saying that it is important to boil wort to turn the moderately soluble polyphenols into insoluble protein-polyphenol complexes. Once formed, I'm not convinced they will re-dissolve and have seen no data or evidence that supports that they will.
As the OP does, I BIAB using a Crown Urn.
Firstly, the rest after boiling. My method has always been (and with the previous Birko urn)
At the end of the boil
My no chill cubes are religiously treated with Sodium Percarbonate and kept Starsanned between uses. The only cube infections I've ever had (three of them to be precise) were when I moved house and somehow the lids got cracked open a bit during transit. Normally I pitch within 3 days anyway, otherwise pop cubes (2x 10L) in the ferm fridge at zero.
Hot break and general gunk reduction, and reclaiming wort from the dead space
I always took it as a given that BIAB produces miles of trub compared to sparging or recirculating systems, and that's just a downside you have to put up with. Eminent forum members assure me that it's impossible to create a proper grain bed with BIAB because the wort instantly "channels" through the grain when you haul the bag, and the wort takes the path of least resistance. Most haulers treat the bag like they are mud wrestling a Nubian wench anyway.
My last few brews I've challenged the notion and gone very gentle on the hoist... I have a pulley system ... and now get very little hot break or hop debris compared to my previous ... way hay and up she rises ... quick haul of the bag.
As described in my other thread I accidentally did this first time and was immediately struck by the difference. Also I no longer do a mashout but did a ramp to 70 on my latest brew (more later).
In order, these are the things that I find markedly different compared to my previous routine:
Now, using the 20 minute rest, from a 24L total volume I can collect 21L of crystal clear wort into the cubes (My 10L cubes, as usual with cubes, have deformed a bit over the years and can take a tad more).
Then with gentle tipping I drain off an further litre into a Schott Bottle and put it aside, usually about half a cm of hot break drops out.
Posting the pic from the other thread, this is the result in the urn, around two litres:
You can see the urn bottom through the dregs, and it's been similar in the 4 brews I have done so far including latest Aussie Pale that I mashed at 64 then ramped to 70 but with a good rest before hoisting.
Urn dregs can be further cleaned up by running all the dregs into Schott bottles. As an experiment I did just that with my latest brew and got a litre of clear wort after settling, that I've currently got working in a starter.
So for the OP:
That way you should lose around a litre of wort to break.
Firstly, the rest after boiling. My method has always been (and with the previous Birko urn)
At the end of the boil
- Add a good dose of Brewbright
- put the lid on the urn
- Stand at the wall next to power point
- When the steam starts to blow out of the nostrils and before a boilover
- Switch off and set timer for 20 minutes then drain into cube(s)
My no chill cubes are religiously treated with Sodium Percarbonate and kept Starsanned between uses. The only cube infections I've ever had (three of them to be precise) were when I moved house and somehow the lids got cracked open a bit during transit. Normally I pitch within 3 days anyway, otherwise pop cubes (2x 10L) in the ferm fridge at zero.
Hot break and general gunk reduction, and reclaiming wort from the dead space
I always took it as a given that BIAB produces miles of trub compared to sparging or recirculating systems, and that's just a downside you have to put up with. Eminent forum members assure me that it's impossible to create a proper grain bed with BIAB because the wort instantly "channels" through the grain when you haul the bag, and the wort takes the path of least resistance. Most haulers treat the bag like they are mud wrestling a Nubian wench anyway.
My last few brews I've challenged the notion and gone very gentle on the hoist... I have a pulley system ... and now get very little hot break or hop debris compared to my previous ... way hay and up she rises ... quick haul of the bag.
As described in my other thread I accidentally did this first time and was immediately struck by the difference. Also I no longer do a mashout but did a ramp to 70 on my latest brew (more later).
In order, these are the things that I find markedly different compared to my previous routine:
- Coming up to the boil, there is a far thinner layer of dirty foam
- When the boil breaks through and the foam is pushed to the sides of the urn the wort, instead of looking like soup is already clear
- It is already starting to break, I can see right down into the wort.
- At the end of the boil, adding Brewbright clumps it even further.
- Previously Brewbright was absolutely needed to get any clumping.
Now, using the 20 minute rest, from a 24L total volume I can collect 21L of crystal clear wort into the cubes (My 10L cubes, as usual with cubes, have deformed a bit over the years and can take a tad more).
Then with gentle tipping I drain off an further litre into a Schott Bottle and put it aside, usually about half a cm of hot break drops out.
Posting the pic from the other thread, this is the result in the urn, around two litres:
You can see the urn bottom through the dregs, and it's been similar in the 4 brews I have done so far including latest Aussie Pale that I mashed at 64 then ramped to 70 but with a good rest before hoisting.
Urn dregs can be further cleaned up by running all the dregs into Schott bottles. As an experiment I did just that with my latest brew and got a litre of clear wort after settling, that I've currently got working in a starter.
So for the OP:
- Best practice is to reduce trub as far as possible
- Use hop straining method, a lot of the sludge is green shyte, especially in Aus where we mostly use pellets
- Create grain bed by lifting very gently. Yes this is a grain bed.
- Use Brewbright
- Rest after boiling - if anything still lives in there I'll shake its hand and take it out for an Angus Burger meal.
- Be a sanitisation Nazi with cubes, and try to pitch soon.
That way you should lose around a litre of wort to break.
Siborg
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I'm interested in this because of how my brew went down on the weekend. I've only recently gotten an immersion chiller after no-chilling for so long (need to buy a cube or two for no-chilling... I do miss it). Anyway, I'm using the Keg King RoboBrew, which is kinda like BIAB but the bag is a SS malt pipe (kinda like a dumbed down Braumeister).
I brewed an APA, with a decent amount of hops (about 100g of pellets all up). Got a little bit of grain material in the boil (think I need a mesh of some kind at the bottom of the malt pipe aka braumesiter). Added half a tablet of irish moss. Whirlpooled. Chilled. Waited.
When it came to filling my fermenter, the first thing I got was a tonne of trub, then it went clear (really clear - happy with that). But I had a shitload of trub, assuming hops and proteins, in suspension. These have all dropped to the bottom, but I'm worried about the health of the batch. I didn't deliberately pour that stuff into the fermenter, but there must have been so much of it at the end of the boil/chill that it was over the tap in the pot. I still left 2-3L of even more sludge in the bottom of the boiler which was tipped down the drain instead of into the fermenter.
My concern is how the brew is going to come out. Like I said, I've only ever no-chilled in the past, and my boilers have been big enough to leave all the trub at the bottom and only grab the good stuff. I've never tipped the little bit of trub in the bottom of the cube into the fermenter either. So, if this turns out bad, I'm going to have to look at some enhancements to my setup/process to reduce the amount of trub material going into the fermenter. Or, I could just be worrying about nothing....
I brewed an APA, with a decent amount of hops (about 100g of pellets all up). Got a little bit of grain material in the boil (think I need a mesh of some kind at the bottom of the malt pipe aka braumesiter). Added half a tablet of irish moss. Whirlpooled. Chilled. Waited.
When it came to filling my fermenter, the first thing I got was a tonne of trub, then it went clear (really clear - happy with that). But I had a shitload of trub, assuming hops and proteins, in suspension. These have all dropped to the bottom, but I'm worried about the health of the batch. I didn't deliberately pour that stuff into the fermenter, but there must have been so much of it at the end of the boil/chill that it was over the tap in the pot. I still left 2-3L of even more sludge in the bottom of the boiler which was tipped down the drain instead of into the fermenter.
My concern is how the brew is going to come out. Like I said, I've only ever no-chilled in the past, and my boilers have been big enough to leave all the trub at the bottom and only grab the good stuff. I've never tipped the little bit of trub in the bottom of the cube into the fermenter either. So, if this turns out bad, I'm going to have to look at some enhancements to my setup/process to reduce the amount of trub material going into the fermenter. Or, I could just be worrying about nothing....
Liam_snorkel
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crash chill at end of fermentation to drop all that trub out.
Siborg
The extra trub is probably mostly Cold Break, which you wouldn't have had in the kettle unless you were using an immersion chiller. Cold break is very light and fluffy and takes a fair fraction of forever to settle, so its still floating around near the bottom and getting sucked out the tap.
Cold break is not really something to get upset about - unless there is so much that it starts to interfere with the yeast - this usually only happens with high protein malts or lots of adjunct (six row malt). A certain amount is important for good yeast nutrition.
There are squillions of different proteins in a wort, during the boil the bigger (higher molecular weight) proteins are precipitated first and should be on the bottom of the kettle along with a lot of other stuff that makes up the hot break (tannin's, lipids, hop debris...) there are so many different proteins in wort that we don't even look at them individually, just group them by size, if you look at the article I posted a link to, there is a graph showing how the various sized proteins are affected by boil time.
If there are too many of the high MW proteins in the fermenter, as the pH drops during fermentation and the yeast is looking for nutrients it will pick apart the break material, more of it (or fragments of it) and some of the lipids (very head damaging and contribute to stale flavours) will end up back in the beer. The other problem is called yeast coating, too much trub can coat the yeast and reduce its ability do make wort into beer.
Mark
The extra trub is probably mostly Cold Break, which you wouldn't have had in the kettle unless you were using an immersion chiller. Cold break is very light and fluffy and takes a fair fraction of forever to settle, so its still floating around near the bottom and getting sucked out the tap.
Cold break is not really something to get upset about - unless there is so much that it starts to interfere with the yeast - this usually only happens with high protein malts or lots of adjunct (six row malt). A certain amount is important for good yeast nutrition.
There are squillions of different proteins in a wort, during the boil the bigger (higher molecular weight) proteins are precipitated first and should be on the bottom of the kettle along with a lot of other stuff that makes up the hot break (tannin's, lipids, hop debris...) there are so many different proteins in wort that we don't even look at them individually, just group them by size, if you look at the article I posted a link to, there is a graph showing how the various sized proteins are affected by boil time.
If there are too many of the high MW proteins in the fermenter, as the pH drops during fermentation and the yeast is looking for nutrients it will pick apart the break material, more of it (or fragments of it) and some of the lipids (very head damaging and contribute to stale flavours) will end up back in the beer. The other problem is called yeast coating, too much trub can coat the yeast and reduce its ability do make wort into beer.
Mark
Dave70
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I allow for 2L of kettle dead space in Brewmate. Still hit my numbers and don't feel cheated for leaving some greenish brown sludge in the bottom of the kettle.InterCooL said:
Never use to be bothered by it all that much but figured after going to the effort of building a wort chiller and using it, its pissing in the face of my own reason not to go that little bit extra and draw off as clean a wort as possible. Tough also as I'm impatient as buggery to get that **** squared off and inoculated.
Just have another beer - and chill mun..
Benn
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What would happen if after cubing when the wort has reached "room temperature" you chilled the cube down to just above freezing? Would this create more cold break? Could the cube then be allowed to rise up to pitching temp before being transferred to the fermenting vessel and all the additional cold break be left behind in the cube, or will the cold break somehow re-absorb back into the wort once the temperature begins to rise to pitching temp?
The "extra" precipitate would be mostly what is called chill haze - what we remove when we lager a beer (takes days to weeks to settle).
As with chill haze in finished beer, if you let the beer/wort warm back up it would promptly redissolve.
Looks like a lot dicking around to achieve not much.
Its really easy to leave the trub in the kettle, its quick and effectively removes the stuff that causes problems and keeps the wort components that we want in the wort to make good beer. I cant for the life of me see why its so hard to understand or why anyone would want to add extra trub to their wort. Trub separation is one of the basic brewing processes preformed in every brewery in the world. Just do the basics right, if you are having a quality issue you might need to refine your processes, but get the basics right first!
Mark
As with chill haze in finished beer, if you let the beer/wort warm back up it would promptly redissolve.
Looks like a lot dicking around to achieve not much.
Its really easy to leave the trub in the kettle, its quick and effectively removes the stuff that causes problems and keeps the wort components that we want in the wort to make good beer. I cant for the life of me see why its so hard to understand or why anyone would want to add extra trub to their wort. Trub separation is one of the basic brewing processes preformed in every brewery in the world. Just do the basics right, if you are having a quality issue you might need to refine your processes, but get the basics right first!
Mark
This is the bit I'm interested in. I haven't found anything that explains this. I would love to read about it. Also, why isn't cold break a problem? Wouldn't the yeast just pick this apart also?MHB said:
I understand that you may not be able to provide a link to this but do you have a source for this information so I can read it for myself?
Barge
I just went and re-read the relevant section in Kunze, that is my go to reference for anything technical. I know its expensive and very biased toward big lager brewing but it really is my brewing bible, if you are interested enough to buy one it will I believe repay the investment over and over.
We want (NEED) a certain amount of protein in the wort for good yeast nutrition, the amount you get from cold break is more than enough, if you were trying to make something down the Becks end of the scale, maybe a more than too much.
The size of the protein and what yeast can drag across its membranes determines how the yeast handles different proteins, like if it finds Sucrose in the wort it will excrete Invertase to convert the sucrose into glucose and fractose that are then imported into the cell and treated more like maltose, the yeast responds to its environment but the enzyme stays in the beer
One of the enzymes yeast can excrete is Protease-A which is a big head negative, remember that enzymes ones excreted into the beer just wander around breaking all the proteins that build body and head into peptides that don't help us at all.
Yeast also needs some sterols and fatty acids and zinc, enough of these will get through for yeast nutrition. But lipids aren't all created equal, some are good for the beer (or yeast) some aren't, the worst ones tend to be concentrated in the hot break. Some of these can literally turn to soap in the ferment (look up off flavour "Soapy") others can lead to very fast staling of the beer.
The big problem is when we try to look at just one part of the process, without taking account of all the knock on effects that will follow down stream. We really have to look at brewing as an integrated whole.
Mark
I just went and re-read the relevant section in Kunze, that is my go to reference for anything technical. I know its expensive and very biased toward big lager brewing but it really is my brewing bible, if you are interested enough to buy one it will I believe repay the investment over and over.
We want (NEED) a certain amount of protein in the wort for good yeast nutrition, the amount you get from cold break is more than enough, if you were trying to make something down the Becks end of the scale, maybe a more than too much.
The size of the protein and what yeast can drag across its membranes determines how the yeast handles different proteins, like if it finds Sucrose in the wort it will excrete Invertase to convert the sucrose into glucose and fractose that are then imported into the cell and treated more like maltose, the yeast responds to its environment but the enzyme stays in the beer
One of the enzymes yeast can excrete is Protease-A which is a big head negative, remember that enzymes ones excreted into the beer just wander around breaking all the proteins that build body and head into peptides that don't help us at all.
Yeast also needs some sterols and fatty acids and zinc, enough of these will get through for yeast nutrition. But lipids aren't all created equal, some are good for the beer (or yeast) some aren't, the worst ones tend to be concentrated in the hot break. Some of these can literally turn to soap in the ferment (look up off flavour "Soapy") others can lead to very fast staling of the beer.
The big problem is when we try to look at just one part of the process, without taking account of all the knock on effects that will follow down stream. We really have to look at brewing as an integrated whole.
Mark
hotmelt
Well-Known Member
Make yourself a trub ring like this. It's just a cheap bowl minus the bowl bit.Just as the trub breaks the surface place the ring with a pair of tongs.
Liam_snorkel
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ingenious!
nosco
Well-Known Member
Wouldnt work with my element
