Biab - All In One, Literally?

[alkos]

Hi guys

I am considering the move to AG in the BIAB style. Essentially 40L urn plus grain and bag hop bag, both full sized, plus wort chiller.

The thing I'm cosidering is: taking into account the bag textile will be tight enough not to let any serious particles through, why wouldn't one ferment in the same urn as mashing/boiling? What may go wrong?

Thanks for your thoughts

Cheers, Alek

 

[Bribie G]

Theoretically, once you have transferred the wort off the trub, cleaned out the urn and run the cooled clear wort back into the urn you could ferment in it - many a fine beer brewed in stainless steel. In practice however I reckon there are so many nooks and crannies and places like the tap and the sight tube (if you have one) that can harbour nasties, I'd be very dubious.

The one major infection I had was because I had the bright idea of leaving the urn overnight for the wort to cool then transfer it to the fermenting vessel. Seemed to work ok, but after a few days it was obvious that some bugs had got well into the brew before the yeast had a chance. On dismantling the tap afterwards there were some nasty bits of old hop leaf and stuff trapped there.

If you are using an urn with a concealed element and therefore a nice smooth interior with few or no lurking places, and had access to steam to flush the whole system through, it might work. Seal with cling wrap would be the go.
However if fermenting in a cold environment like a fridge or cool cabinet then condensation would maybe stuff the electronics in the urn.

Proper fermenter for me every time B)

Hey are you actually IN Dublin or just from there?

 

[mkstalen]

My guess is you probably could as long as you had a half decent seal to any nasties didn't get in during the ferment. Although you'd have a stack of sediment/crud at the bottom which you'd generally not transfer to the fermenter.

However, I'm assuming most people don't so they can still use their urn for another brew while they've got another in a fermenter or cube... Also probably easier to move a fermenter around than an urn.

 

[Nick JD]

It's best to not ferment your break material.

 

[alkos]

BribieG - wouldn't the tap disinfect during boil?

I live in Dublin, I am no Irish though. This forum is the only one getting through web filter at my work And nevertheless, a great and friendly one

sienberg - cling wrap will do I guess?

Nick JD - is it the stuff that precipitate during boil? How dangerous is it to ferment it? (I have no experience with AG yet... hence stupid questions ;-) )

 

[Nick JD]

Nick JD - is it the stuff that precipitate during boil? How dangerous is it to ferment it? (I have no experience with AG yet... hence stupid questions ;-) )

I've done a "one pot" brew before just for a laugh. You'll get drinkable beer, but you are much better off transfering the good wort out and fermenting that in another container, then you'll get delicious beer.

Fermenting on the hot break lets you know two things: firstly, hot break isn't the evil demon many speak of, and second, it won't make your beer taste better than one without it.

That said, youll get lots of advice from people who've never tasted a beer brewed with the break material still in it.

 

[alkos]

I'll try it once. If I won't like the result, next time I'll just transfer the wort to a bucket, clean the urn and pour it back for fermentation. I'm really desperate to use as small kitchen space as possible. Ask my girlfriend why :mellow: Thanks for advice

 

[manticle]

I've made loads of partials which contained all break material and hop trub because of limited equipment. You can make good beer with break material in there (and some is even considered good for head formation and retention). My equipment now allows me to leave most behind so I do so but it doesn't make your beer die or taste like squashed ants.

 

[MHB]

FFS - I give up
MHB

 

[alkos]

Excuse me?

 

[felten]

MHB is a brewing purist

There is a lot of reasons why you shouldn't and I'm sure you can search around for the science behind why. I've never done it before so I can't say what the results would be, but at the end of the day the proof is in the drinking.

good luck

 

[dr K]

Sometimes things seem so obvious you wonder why no-one else has taken such a simple short-cut before, bungie jumping without that pesky rope "springs" to mind.
Seriously.

K

 

[MHB]

MHB is a brewing purist

That may be true; in this case I'm just pissed off at a couple of idiots who loudly and often give really bad advice to anyone on any subject.

It took longer to read this than it did to find it (Google is your friend) Hot Trub: Formation and Removal.

Read it and then decide if you are getting good advice.

 

[alkos]

Uhm ;-) I'll report how it works in couple of weeks

 

[thelastspud]

It took longer to read this than it did to find it (Google is your friend) Hot Trub: Formation and Removal.

very interesting article but it doesnt say much about removing cold break, should we be doing that aswell?

 

[MHB]

Often the right answer in Brewing is maybe, this is one of those. Cold break can be a problem if there are excessive amounts; otherwise it's an important yeast nutrient.

Clearly there are a range of answers from no problem to Oh Shit, really if you aren't using 6 row malt or lots of adjunct with high nitrogen (read Protein) levels forget about it.

MHB

 

[bigfridge]

very interesting article but it doesnt say much about removing cold break, should we be doing that aswell?

Well not surprising - it is an article about hot break so why would it focus on cold break ?

Try Cold Trub: Implications for Finished Beer, and Methods of Removal

 

[bigfridge]

FFS - I give up
MHB

I think that MHB is just expressing the frustration that a lot of us 'old timers' are feeling about the excessively high 'dickhead' rating on this site lately. People seem to have lost all respect for people's time and effort by not searching before asking and then not bothering to read the question properly before loudly forcing their misguided opinion on all and sundry.

The poor guy who asked about making VB for his dad is a good example of people letting their opinion get in the way of what the poster was asking - everyone wanted to be a comedian rather than give him some brewing advice.

Then there is the guy that spent the boil precipitating all the undesirable compounds into the hot break and then proudly showed how he spent probably 10 times the wort cost in energy to concentrated it down and add it to his fermenter.

My advice would be to forget about asking sensible questions here and just either look elsewhere for your answers (google is your friend here) or just buy a few books.

To (mis) quote that great Monty Python Universe song "Let's hope that there is intelligent advice elsewhere as there is buggar all to be found here".

Good brewing,
Dave

 

[Steve]

I think that MHB is just expressing the frustration that a lot of us 'old timers' are feeling about the excessively high 'dickhead' rating on this site lately. People seem to have lost all respect for people's time and effort by not searching before asking and then not bothering to read the question properly before loudly forcing their misguided opinion on all and sundry.

The poor guy who asked about making VB for his dad is a good example of people letting their opinion get in the way of what the poster was asking - everyone wanted to be a comedian rather than give him some brewing advice.

Then there is the guy that spent the boil precipitating all the undesirable compounds into the hot break and then proudly showed how he spent probably 10 times the wort cost in energy to concentrated it down and add it to his fermenter.

My advice would be to forget about asking sensible questions here and just either look elsewhere for your answers (google is your friend here) or just buy a few books.

To (mis) quote that great Monty Python Universe song "Let's hope that there is intelligent advice elsewhere as there is buggar all to be found here".

Good brewing,
Dave

Couldnt have said it better myself
Cheers to that :beer:
Steve

 

[alkos]

Dave, this is absolutely normal and I understand the "stupid question saturation level" effect on matured forums. I am addministrating quite large and active Polish photographic forum and we have all been through - wait - we all are neckdeep in it. It is sad and unfair - especially if you are a person that will never ask "why do you bother actually", like me, and respect (almost) every question... But it seems there is nothing that can be done, all newcomers after certain point must suffer and feel discouraged. Don't worry, I'm immune

I'm thinking about filtering the wort through 135 micron nylon between the mash and hot break - effectively boiling hops in a full size, stretched bag made of it. That should leave only small fraction of trub behind... we'll see.