Belgian Saison

[zebba]

Kids found my fermenter. I'd glad wrapped it and rested a lid on top for extra security. Lid was gone and glad wrap had finger holes all through it. Not happy. Fingers are crossed, but I'm not holding my breath.

Last gravity reading was a week ago and it was down to 1.011. So close...

 

[Tony]

Saison Stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 27.00 Wort Size (L): 27.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.45
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.72
Anticipated EBC: 70.6
Anticipated IBU: 34.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
62.0 4.00 kg. Weyermann Premium Pilsner Germany 1.038 3
15.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 26
7.8 0.50 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 4
4.7 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carabohemien Germany 1.034 200
4.7 0.30 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special II Germany 1.036 1100
3.1 0.20 kg. Special B Belgium 1.035 310
2.3 0.15 kg. Weyermann Choc Wheat Germany 1.035 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
80.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 30.7 45 min.
12.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 2.1 15 min.
20.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 3.70 1.4 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison


Edit: If i ever changed it i would drop the carabohemian to get it a bit more roasty dry

 

[drtomc]

Looks amazing Tony. How does the carafa sit with the yeast flavors? I'm struggling to marry them in my head.

T.

 

[Tony]

well....... it was a whole lot of "lots going on" thats for sure

I took it to a club night here in Newcastle and everyone loved it....... but said they couldnt drink lots of it in a sitting.

It wasnt a quaffer but it was very nice.

All the roast kind of hid the yeast fruit but the yeast fruit kind of mellowed the roast and it ended up a tad sweetish..... hence why i would drop the crystal.

Maybe even use Vienna in stead of the Munich too.

Ahhh hell its a base anyone can play with that was a good beer. Adjust to your tastes

I liked it but will stick with pale Saisons i think. They are ment to be quaffers and a 7.5% stout aint no quaffer

 

[jyo]

It looks great!

 

[Tanga]

What was your FG Tony? My dark Saison (mashed @ 66*) is sitting on 1008. Tastes sweet though. I can't really detect any funk either, does it need to be brewed hot for that? My Saison started out warmer, but is now only 22.

 

[Nick JD]

What was your FG Tony? My dark Saison (mashed @ 66*) is sitting on 1008. Tastes sweet though. I can't really detect any funk either, does it need to be brewed hot for that? My Saison started out warmer, but is now only 22.

I find I get more funk from the biere de guard yeast - there's a tiny hint of it in the saison, but it's drowning behind the pear and loquat esters.

I'm quite happy with the FG (mine was 1.009). The one fermenting atm will probably go lower - to see if I like that better - but I see from the BJCP and other saison threads on other sites that very low FGs are the exception, not the rule.

Methinks Tony might be right into thin saisons.

 

[Tanga]

Yeah, apart from the colour I'm spot on for the suggested numbers, and it tastes good.

I seem to remember reading about someone who added some Orval dregs to the bottling bucket. How'd that go? I want to add some funk and sourness, so was thinking of adding the dregs (cultured up) to half a batch.

 

[drtomc]

I'm quite happy with the FG (mine was 1.009). The one fermenting atm will probably go lower - to see if I like that better - but I see from the BJCP and other saison threads on other sites that very low FGs are the exception, not the rule.

Methinks Tony might be right into thin saisons.

I don't have Farmhouse Ales in front of me, so I could be wrong, but I think the commercial Belgian examples (which ought to define they style as much as anything), Dupont in particular, have pretty low FG.

My experience (and Saison is my most-brewed style), is that even with low FG (mine mostly come out 1.005-1.008), they avoid tasting thin because of the intense ester profile from the yeast, also because I tend to brew them stronger rather than weaker (OG typically round 1.060), the ester-alcohol reaction products contribute a perception of body that is much greater than you'd expect from the FG.

2c,
T.

 

[Nick JD]

I don't have Farmhouse Ales in front of me, so I could be wrong, but I think the commercial Belgian examples (which ought to define they style as much as anything), Dupont in particular, have pretty low FG.

My experience (and Saison is my most-brewed style), is that even with low FG (mine mostly come out 1.005-1.008), they avoid tasting thin because of the intense ester profile from the yeast, also because I tend to brew them stronger rather than weaker (OG typically round 1.060), the ester-alcohol reaction products contribute a perception of body that is much greater than you'd expect from the FG.

2c,
T.

While I agree a big part of Saison seems to be the low FG ... almost all literature seems to say that somewhere around 1.010 is "normal".

Even Wyeast says 1.010-1.016 http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_styledetails.cfm?ID=176

I'm not gonna sit there watching it for a month after it hits single figures!

 

[stl]

While I agree a big part of Saison seems to be the low FG ... almost all literature seems to say that somewhere around 1.010 is "normal".

I'm pretty sure I recall reading in Farmhouse Ales that they often finish below 1.010..

Even Wyeast says 1.010-1.016 http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_styledetails.cfm?ID=176

I'm not gonna sit there watching it for a month after it hits single figures!

My last one took just three weeks to get from 1.040 to 1.004 in the low 20s. (That was 3kg Weyermann FM Bo Pils, 500g rolled oats, 500g malted rye; some Styrian Goldings and coriander at 10min... and damn tasty.)

So that puts the OG below what Wyeast says as well... but that's what I'm usually after in the style, exactly what is often cited as the original motivation behind the style -- something refreshing for farm workers on a warm day, and beyond 5% really doesn't do it for me. (Not that I don't enjoy the stronger ones.)

 

[Nick JD]

Here 'tis.

First thing that hits ya is the acidity. It's very prominent - there's a sharpness there that's kinda like a dry white wine, I think because immediately following the bite is a rush of fruitiness. The esters have subdued a LOT since my fermenter tastings, but my best descriptor would be unripe pear (you know, a really crunchy one) chased by an unripe strawberry. Makes a hefe's tartness seem tame.

The mouthfeel is weirdly silky. I mashed pretty high - so some of that's dextrins - and used a fair whack of sugaz to get 1.009, but the only thing I can compare it to is a Biere de Guard in mouthfeel.

Aroma is pear city. A hint of alcohol (~5.5%)

Aftertaste has a hint of funk. Like a BdG's funk 'cept mellower. A tiny bit of "corked twang", but only in the last of the aftertaste. Something I grew to like with last summer's BdGs.

I have a feeling that late American and NZ hops would work wonders with this yeast. Especially the citrus ones.

 

[pk.sax]

Looking very nice.

Mine has sprouted a 10mm ish thick second Krausen and looks like it wants to ferment out. I'm just letting it be at this stage. 26C is normal temp atm.

 

[petesbrew]

Brewed up the Saison last night.
The Perle hops were 6AA% initially but are '06 vintage :huh: , so I reckon dropping down to 4 % was okay.

Despite the rain there were no hiccups, apart from a dangerous heavy lifting exercise. (lifting hot kettle onto a table - I must get a brew stand!)
Providing the yeast doesn't stall this may squeeze in by my son's birthday in mid Jan.
Initial taste is great, and clarity is brilliant.
Cheers again to Tony for the initial recipe.

Shakey Jake's Saison

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.35
Anticipated OG: 1.052 Plato: 12.750
Anticipated EBC: 9.1
Anticipated IBU: 29.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
74.8 4.00 kg. Pale Ale Malt (2-row) Australia 1.037 5
18.7 1.00 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.040 4
3.7 0.20 kg. CaraPilsner France 1.035 20
2.8 0.15 kg. Weyermann Acidulated Germany 1.000 5

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
35.00 g. Perle Pellet 4.00 20.8 60 min.
22.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.80 4.2 15 min.
22.00 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 8.00 4.4 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP565 Belgian Saison I

 

[pk.sax]

Kegged it today. Dropped to 1005. Well, it dropped and then was starting to develop some infection like bubbles. Doesn't smell funky. Anyway, the clarity of it coming out of the fermenter was amazing. If I wasn't a bit sick today I'd be getting into it. No discernible banana aroma.

 

[Nick JD]

Kegged it today. Dropped to 1005. Well, it dropped and then was starting to develop some infection like bubbles. Doesn't smell funky. Anyway, the clarity of it coming out of the fermenter was amazing. If I wasn't a bit sick today I'd be getting into it. No discernible banana aroma.

Mine's mellowed a bit. Dried apricots now. I never got any banana.

 

[Tony]

Just running a 34 liter batch of Saison to the kettle now. GOing to split it between 2 x 17L cubes and ferment them side by side.

one with belgian saison, one with french saison.

recipe:

Golden Saison

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 34.00 Wort Size (L): 34.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.75
Anticipated OG: 1.040 Plato: 9.89
Anticipated EBC: 7.0
Anticipated IBU: 27.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
78.3 4.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
10.4 0.60 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.038 4
8.7 0.50 kg. Simpson Golden naked oats :icon_chickcheers: UK 1.032 15
2.6 0.15 kg. Weyermann Acidulated Germany 1.035 5

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 4.00 19.6 45 min.
20.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 6.50 5.7 15 min.
30.00 g. Tettnanger Tettnang Pellet 4.50 2.4 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison




mashed at 52 for 10 min, infused to 63 for 45 min then infused to 71. Mashed out at this.

this is going to be fun

Edit: boil times are with 5 min added to give me no chill bitterness....... its will be 40, 10, 0

 

[pk.sax]

This keg of saison is emptying fast!

 

[drtomc]

I reckon Saison is a top drop. Pretty much my house style.

T.

 

[lock]

I reckon Saison is a top drop. Pretty much my house style.

T.

It amazes me that none of the micros have really gone full throttle on the style. I reckon it's pretty much ideal for Brisbane weather.

I hope to do my first saison in Jan when I get back from hols.