Red Saison - help needed.

[Mardoo]

OK guys, here's the Rye Saison recipe I mentioned. Sorry for the delay, I just wanted to get permission from them to post. It's from candisyrup.com. They have some great Belgian clone recipes that they run trials on until they get them right. This is one that must not have made the cut so it's no longer posted. However I had it when Prince Imperial (I think) brewed it and it was great. The rye really came through clearly as well as the saison, backed by the low notes of the candi syrup. I think I'll make it in December. Oh, and the Simplicity candi syrup they mention is a clear one they do.

View attachment Saison Rye.pdf

 

[technobabble66]

Dough In !!
Mash now, Boil after work tonight.

This is the recipe i went with:

Poignarder Rouge Saison
Vol = 23.5
OG = 1.045
FG = 1.004
IBU = 23.4 - the Horizon & Select are old, so maybe more like 15-17 IBU(?)
EBC = 35.9 - this seemed to be about right for a deep red.
alc = 5.4%

3kg Wey Boh Pilsner
1.2kg Wey Wheat malt
0.15kg Midnight Wheat
0.15kg Wey Acidulated

2g CaSO4 + 2g CaCl2 into mash & boil,
0.8g CaSO4 + 0.8g CaCl2 into sparge

Mash roughly 55/62/69/72/78 for 10/20/30/20/5
25L Mash, 10L Sparge

10g Horizon @0min
10g Horizon @20min
10g Select @ 20min
10g Hallertau Mitt @ 20min
Irish Moss 1/2 tab at 10mins
----------------------------------------

For the record, Midnight Wheat does NOT appear to produce a red colour (as i'd hoped <_< ), at least going by the mashing wort. Just a straight amberish brown. Bit disappointed...
Definitely need to get me some of that Roasted Barley!
...which i would've used, but i've got all this MW sitting around... and it seemed like a good idea at the time...

 

[Mardoo]

If you have any black malt you can actually chuck it in the boil whole for color. It's an old English technique. I did it on my swap brew. Doesn't add nasty tannic-ness as one might think, but rather a nice faint, far background dark fruit flavor. I took a guess at 100gr. That's black malt, not RB. Can't say what that would add flavor wise.

 

[technobabble66]

Finally got to do the boil today - i'm sure 24hrs btw mashing and boiling, with 2 mini-boils to sterilise in between, won't affect the beer... :unsure:

Hmmm... preboil SG=1.050 at about 28L.
(postboil) OG is meant to be 1.045. :huh:
Ummm ... i might need to dilute the intended 23.5L a bit and ramp up the hops a fraction h34r: .
The problem with doing the first brew on a new setup, i guess.

 

[technobabble66]

This first one hit 1.008 yesterday. Seems to have slowed down a bit, though possibly due to temp fluctuations. I've been trying to keep it warm, but it's dropped down to 24°C the previous 2 nights. Probably hasn't helped the process, unfortunately.
Seems to be tasting OK out of the hydro sample though.

 

[technobabble66]

Yesterday's big activity was brewing a second version of this.
This was a US-style Saison, where the Midnight Wheat was replaced by some Roasted Barley and CaraAroma after the first version seems to be turning out more like a dirty amber. And obviously different hops!
Mash schedule altered slightly (62 for 20 went to 63 for 30, 69 for 40 dropped to 68 for 30). Just because (trying to get a nice dry finish).

The targets were all adjusted afterwards, after my OG came in a lot higher than expected (had to adjust to 95% efficiency to achieve the same measured OG on the spreadsheet!!). [wtf?!]


US Commie Saison

Vol = 25 (became 26L)
OG = 1.043 (became 1.052)
FG = 1.008 (became 1.006)
IBU = 20.4 (became 18, but a 15min steep might add a few more IBUs)
EBC = 35.2 (became 34.3)
alc = 4.9% (became 6.4%)

3kg Wey Boh Pilsner
1.2kg Wey Wheat malt
0.14kg Roasted Barley
0.05 CaraAroma
0.15kg Wey Acidulated

2g CaSO4 + 2g CaCl2 into mash & boil,
0.8g CaSO4 + 0.8g CaCl2 + 0.3g Citric acid into sparge

Mash 55/63/68/72/78 for 10/30/30/20/5
24L Mash, 10L Sparge

10g Simcoe @20min
15g Cascade @20min
7g Nelson @ 20min
Irish Moss 1/2 tab at 10mins

Pitched a rehydrated packet of Belle Saison into it at 20°C.
(same as the first one)

 

[Mardoo]

How was the color? Were you happier with it?

 

[technobabble66]

Brown again (*********!!), however it seemed to have a noticeable red tinge to it .
However, i shouldn't jump the gun - the red ale i bottled 2 weeks ago was poo brown going into the fermenter, a (very) slightly reddish brown going into the bottle, and now seems to be a decent red-brown colour.
So i've got some hope for the 2nd one (probably going to the Vic's Swap), whereas i'm pessimistic about the first one becoming red (MM swap beer).

Both seemed decent going into the FV, taste-wise, though the first was definitely more bitter. Again, time will tell how balanced they are by the time they're ready to drink.
Still not sure if i'll dry hop the 2nd one - probably will, 10g or so of each of the 3 hops maybe...

Hopefully they'll be ready in time for the 2 swaps, otherwise i'm gonna have a truckload of saison to get through this summer (FWP!).

 

[technobabble66]

Update:
Tried both versions a couple of days ago, compared to a Dupont Saison (-yes, i know very different given mine were red saisons).

So the "classic" recipe (Poignarder Rouge) was 15 days in the bottle, and the "new world" (US Commie, aka Red Red Y'all) was 9 days in the bottle.

Because they're not fully aged/carbed (need another 1-6 weeks?), and they were both in the MM & Vic Case Swaps, i'll keep the comparison short so i don't bias the tastings feedback later.
Basically i was very surprised with how well they ended up :super:
I'd highly recommend trying both (generally) a saison and the Belle Saison yeast.
The Midnight wheat in the "classic" version seems to have eventually turned it a deep red-brown, esp as the yeast has settled out. The younger "new world" one using the RB+CaraAroma is maybe a little more brownish and opaque, but they're both very similar in both depth of colour and hue. Probably give them both another 4 &/or 8 weeks to review the colour results.

Flavour-wise, they're both relatively smooth for young delicate beers that had some very dark/roast malts thrown in. (NB: the Midnight wheat was part of the mash, the RB+CA were cold steeped then thrown in at mashout) I won't go into what i thought of the different elements - i'll leave the slate clean for the case swap tastings (which i'll post later).
However, both my wife & i chugged through all 3 beers & at the end she said she preferred both of mine. To which i was surprised to find i agreed. Admittedly neither of us have much experience with saisons, and she doesn't really like half the styles i like; but i was rather chuffed at the end of that preliminary tasting! B)
Hopefully the other brewers down here find it similarly pleasing (& this doesn't falsely build up expectations!).