Belgian Saison

[Muscovy_333]

Sorry to go off topic oh so quickly, but i have both blokes i want reading this thread.
I'm putting down a Biere de Garde later this week and was going to use 3725 Wyeast biere de garde (PC).

Manticle, I believe you have used this yeast...Not sure if you have Tony??
Do you think I'm better off using the French or Belgian Saison yeast that Tony has mentioned above?
I do not want too many fruity esters as I'm going for a light rendition subtle and balanced with a hint of sourness.


EDIT: I have just started a thread for this discussion.

Biere de Garde

 

[manticle]

My experience of the WY PC biere de garde is that is surprisingly subtle and low on esters.

Not sure you'll get a lot of sourness with either biere de garde or french saison (both I've used before, belgian is still fermenting/conditioning so not willing to comment) but 3711 will give dry, tart and spicy if the mash temp is low.

 

[Tony]

Ive not used the biere de garde yeasts as yet but its on the cards.

After trying a few commercial examples, id say its what your after.

I say give it a run and let us know!

cheers

 

[Muscovy_333]

My experience of the WY PC biere de garde is that is surprisingly subtle and low on esters.

Not sure you'll get a lot of sourness with either biere de garde or french saison (both I've used before, belgian is still fermenting/conditioning so not willing to comment) but 3711 will give dry, tart and spicy if the mash temp is low.

Cool, I'm after subtle and low esters.
I'm going to slightly sour the mash.

I'm working on the premise of less is more, but trying to introduce complexity at a threshold level to keep me thinking!

Thanks for your help. I have not had much experience with the range of liquid yeasts so am looking forward to the next evolution.

 

[Tony]

mate, the 3724 gives subtle low (sweet fruity and floral) esters if you keep it down at below 28 deg..... but i have had it up around 32 and it was no different really, just a tad more earthy and still really REALLY nice.

Its not a big in your face funky beer. The sourness is subtle and ballancing for the esters.

the 3711 is dry, and more tart and acidic...... almost sour lemon kind of character.

if you have a month to ferment, give the 3724 a try one day...... its a great yeast!

 

[Muscovy_333]

mate, the 3724 gives subtle low (sweet fruity and floral) esters if you keep it down at below 28 deg..... but i have had it up around 32 and it was no different really, just a tad more earthy and still really REALLY nice.

Its not a big in your face funky beer. The sourness is subtle and ballancing for the esters.

the 3711 is dry, and more tart and acidic...... almost sour lemon kind of character.

if you have a month to ferment, give the 3724 a try one day...... its a great yeast!

Sounds like i need to split my batch...and pitch 2 yeasts!

Thanks for your advise Tony...2 birds with one stone.

 

[adryargument]

Just pitched WLP565 into a double batch of Bullsneck Summer Saison.
Shes wrapped up in a blanket and heatpad.
Overnight she has gone from 26->31 deg's and sitting happily.

 

[JDW81]

Does the high fermentation temps of saison yeasts also apply during bottle conditioning?

Going to give one a shot on the weekend. Just making up my mind which one to brew.

Tony, how does your Bullshead Saison stand up to no chill?

Cheers,

JD

 

[Nick JD]

Does the high fermentation temps of saison yeasts also apply during bottle conditioning?

I've only kegged them, but since the yeast is practically dormant under 25C (Belgian) you've ideally want it in the 30s for conditioning.

 

[JDW81]

I've only kegged them, but since the yeast is practically dormant under 25C (Belgian) you've ideally want it in the 30s for conditioning.

Looks like they'll be residing in the garage then

 

[Tony]

Tony, how does your Bullshead Saison stand up to no chill?

Like any other beer. Its just the same but the hops dont shine like they would in a snap chilled beer.

I have 2 batched on tap that were no chilled and they have less hop character than my origional beer i made that was chilled, but to be honest.... its still great.

It actually makes the yeast character shine a bit more. Great summer beer!

cheers

 

[JDW81]

Like any other beer. Its just the same but the hops dont shine like they would in a snap chilled beer.

I have 2 batched on tap that were no chilled and they have less hop character than my origional beer i made that was chilled, but to be honest.... its still great.

It actually makes the yeast character shine a bit more. Great summer beer!

cheers

Any merit in a mini boil just before pitching?

 

[Nick JD]

Any merit in a mini boil just before pitching?

Even though the "Style" says it's one of the most hopped Belgians, to me any hops in late just mess with the wonderful yeast-derived flavours.

Belgian saisons are the best beers ever for fermenter tasting. Each time you try it's a different beer. Halfway to FG it's like pear juice, then all the dried fruit flavours start happening, then some mild funkiness (more so in the high alc versions).

When it's about 2 months old most of the esters are faded, and at that stage is still a supurb beer, but you wouldn't recognise it as the same stuff that came out of that fermenter.

 

[adryargument]

Mines looking great, definitely smell the pear flavors coming from it.
45L in a 54L Demijohn - it looks like there's a hurricane in it, yeast is pretty much generating its own vortex. Most active ferment i have noticed to date.

 

[JDW81]

Even though the "Style" says it's one of the most hopped Belgians, to me any hops in late just mess with the wonderful yeast-derived flavours.

Belgian saisons are the best beers ever for fermenter tasting. Each time you try it's a different beer. Halfway to FG it's like pear juice, then all the dried fruit flavours start happening, then some mild funkiness (more so in the high alc versions).

When it's about 2 months old most of the esters are faded, and at that stage is still a supurb beer, but you wouldn't recognise it as the same stuff that came out of that fermenter.

I feel some experimenting coming on. If only melbourne weather would play ball and give me a few weeks over 25*C. Might have to invest in a heat belt.

 

[Nick JD]

I'm onto my 5th batch from the one pack of yeast (have been saving a 300ml PET of trub and repitching usually within a fortnight) and although I really liked the traditional saisons I'm finding that using it as the yeast for fruity APAs makes really great beer.

Try your favourite APA recipe with 3724 @ 35C for a laugh if it warms up.

 

[Lecterfan]

I'm finding that using it as the yeast for fruity APAs makes really great beer.

I find this idea highly arousing.

Although I think I'll stick to the amarillo-to-25-IBU-at-60-mins-in-very-basic-grist-mashed-low for my first experiment.

This thread is awesome.

 

[Dazza88]

Hey, i have had a starter of 3724 going for 36 hours on a stirplate in 25 to 28 ambient, chugging away. I turned off the stir plate this morning in order to pitch tonight - there is a decent layer of yeast 30 minutes after turning the stirrer off.

As the fermentation is slow, is the starter phase slow as well? Will 48hr be enough for the starter to ferment out?

 

[JDW81]

Hey, i have had a starter of 3724 going for 36 hours on a stirplate in 25 to 28 ambient, chugging away. I turned off the stir plate this morning in order to pitch tonight - there is a decent layer of yeast 30 minutes after turning the stirrer off.

As the fermentation is slow, is the starter phase slow as well? Will 48hr be enough for the starter to ferment out?

I was listening to the Jamil Show on saisons and he reckons you only need a small starter (or none at all). According to the guys on the show having fermentation kick off a bit slower is integral for the correct flavour profile.

When I pitched my starter a week ago it had only been fermenting for 18 hours or so (bit still a good layer of yeast on the bottom of the flask). Had a taste yesterday and it is coming along beautifully, lots of spice and its drying out nicely. Should turn out as a good lawn mower beer

JD

 

[Dazza88]

I was listening to the Jamil Show on saisons and he reckons you only need a small starter (or none at all). According to the guys on the show having fermentation kick off a bit slower is integral for the correct flavour profile.

When I pitched my starter a week ago it had only been fermenting for 18 hours or so (bit still a good layer of yeast on the bottom of the flask). Had a taste yesterday and it is coming along beautifully, lots of spice and its drying out nicely. Should turn out as a good lawn mower beer

JD

Thx mate, it will be pitched tonight. The starter was undersized anyways.